Found: The original "Big Red" of The Citadel

[Johnny Lloyd]

All:

Recently of significance to us Citadel Alumni and to the WBTS afficionados, the "Big Red" flag that most likely flew over the Citadel Cadet gun battery on Morris Island on Jan. 9th 1861 has been recently found in a museum in Iowa where it has laid since its capture by Union forces. Well...

I don't know if anyone has posted this information, but you can donate to the preservation of this vital historic relic- the only original red palmetto flag known to exist. I know Mr. Chinnis has posted news of the find on another link. http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...hlight=citadel

Allow me to expound and give a bump to this important find.

If you choose to donate to its safekeeping and homecoming to its rightful heirs and owners: Here it is...

http://citadelalumni.org/bigred/

I'm pretty darn sure you don't have to be an alumni to donate. Just trying to get-out the word.

This find is important in a variety of ways to not only our college or beloved State of South Carolina, but to the story of the American Civil War in-general. This flag is for all who treasure our favorite time period.


Also attached at the bottom of the link above is a copy of more detailed information concerning the find. Enjoy. I know I'll do so. http://citadelalumni.org/Broadcast/bigredreport.pdf

I know I will donate to it, as this flag represents part of why I got involved in reenacting as a hobby in the first place. When I was at Citadel, we thought this flag didn't exist anymore.

I'm wondering: Did someone just forget that they had this relic in the first place?

"Huzzah for our beloved institution... South Carolina Military Academy"

All the best- Johnny Lloyd
The Citadel, Class of 1998

[markj]

Hi,

I have no special dog in this fight (although I lived in Charleston for 5 1/2 years), but this alleged "find" is a textbook case of a select group of well-heeled and influential people collectively deciding upon a flag ID despite being confronted with much contradictory evidence and opinion by very knowlegeable researchers of Confederate vexillology. The flag claimed to be "Big Red" is historical enough in its own right--why denigate that history by assigning an ID to it that's demonstrably erroneous?

Shucks, one can call a paper cup "The Holy Grail," but that doesn't make it so.

Sincerely and cordially,

Mark Jaeger

[Johnny Lloyd]

Good point, Mark... true... even though this flag is an original from the period and the only one like it known still in existance, doesn't necessarily mean it is THE flag that flew on Morris Island on Jan 9th, 1861. I don't think this is any way we can truly prove that beyond a doubt unless someone has a period image linking this flag to that fateful day (or a video camera at the firing on the Star of the West ).

For all we know, it might have been a spare one that was made at about the same time as the one on Morris Island and put into storage somehow until it reached Fort Blakely, AL where it was captured by the Iowans.

Professional opinion amongst researchers states that there is a high likelihood of this flag being present upon Morris Island in Jan 1861, though. We can take no liberties beyond that. An important distinction must be made concerning this when it goes on-display at The Citadel.

Still, it is an original and well-worthy of preservation and being brought home to The Citadel regardless of if it was the one on Morris Island during the Star of the West firing.

This is still one heck-of-an-exciting-find for people that love the period we deal with. Rare indeed!

All the best- Johnny Lloyd

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Johnny,

Thanks for getting the word out on this worthy preservation effort. I'll give your Alma Mater some coin for this. My own Alma Mater doesn't need it anyway.

[BarryDusel]

So when do repro's of this flag show up?

[Johnny Lloyd]

Johnny,

Thanks for getting the word out on this worthy preservation effort. I'll give your Alma Mater some coin for this. My own Alma Mater doesn't need it anyway.

Pete-

You especially should donate... no excuses.

All the best- Johnny Lloyd

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Pete-

You especially should donate... no excuses.

All the best- Johnny Lloyd

I know Johnny, I know...

I'm calling out my fellow transplanted and the native Lowlanders for this one already.

See you in a few days in Georgia...

[Remember1864]

Okay...I'm "confused". Yes, I've read only a couple "in-depth" newspaper accounts of this find and its' significance. BUT, I've worked in the museum world, did seasonal interp for the NPS, ran my own CW tour business in Virginia, and presently work as a tour guide at a historical site in TN. Bottom line; I do my "homework". I research and read constantly. (Like many other members of this forum) That being said, I am apparently "uninformed" as to the "issue" or "issues" with this flag NOT being the Citadel/Morris Island banner. Mark's use of phrases like "demonstrably erroneous" and the comment regarding a "paper cup" and the "Holy Grail" seem unfounded. Based upon what I've read, there is ample provanance leading many knowledgeable people to the decision that this IS the flag in question. I have seen zero documentation about ANYONE on an "agenda" or "platform" regarding this artifact. Please...someone "school" me and tell me wherein lies the problem.

[Prodical Reb]

Hurrah for the flag's preservation! I'm sure the current owners will welcome all funds donated for the preservation of this rare and unique flag. I'm not to sure about them wanting to return it though.

How many flags of this design are documented, suspected or thought to exist? Even in myth, lore or legend, how many tales are there if any of other big red flags with a Palmetto and Cresent in its design? Chances are this is the "Big Red"!

Hope you succeed in getting it returned to The Citadel. It would be nice gesture to have it returned along with all other captured flag that are in the Victors hands up north.

Remember, just because it once flew over Citadel cadets in battle (and that it makes it a special flag to you), all other captive flags from this period are just as special to representatives of their previous owners.

[LWhite64]

In regards to this flag and the issues of it being "Big Red" and in being a member along with Mark of the mentioned Flag study group, which includes many experts in the field, and was formed by the late and great Howard Madaus. The flag in question does not completely jive with the battery flag, the cresent is not turned the right direction as per period accounts. Also, the flag was stated to have been captured in Mobile by the Iowa soldier, not Fort Blakley, and the connection with Captain Culpeper is very loose, there were plenty of other Citadel grads in the army, including ones who served in the battery. Finally, in period newspapers there are many references to red palmetto flags in SC in the early days of the war, so this could be one of those as well. I still think its awesome that the flag is being preserved and all, just have doubts of it being Big Red.

Lee