babylon has fallen

[Old Cremona]

Originally Posted by Pvt Schnapps

I have a question about the performance of Work's songs that I'm hoping one of you musicians can help me with. Today he's undercut by his massively "incorrect" dialect lyrics. But -- and believe it or not, this occurred to me while reading those for "Corporal Schnapps" -- wouldn't this have undercut sales in the day? Not because they were considered offensive, but it seems way harder to memorize lyrics that consist half of nonsense versions of corrupted English. Do you think people might have more or less substituted real English for some passages?

Just curious.

Naah. I've never had any more trouble memorizing dialect than standard english. I've never heard of any one complaining about the difficulty of memorizing dialect. They sure published a lot of dialect tunes back then. Seems like a waste of effort if no one was going to sing it that way.

[GermanDraftee]

IMHO, the quote from the publisher, George Frederick Root, establishes that AC standards have been met. The song in question is listed by its seller as a principle work (=sold a ton of copies) from a writer who had a string of "hits" with this company. Since Root differentiates between a song with ongoing, post-war popularity- Marching Through Georgia- and songs that were more popular during the war, I believe that it is safe to say that Babylon is Fallen was popular, and is usuable for scenarios, in late 1863 and onward.

[OldKingCrow]

Originally Posted by Pvt Schnapps

Do you want every singer to document it to a particular regiment or post-63 event? What if no one's documented any specific song to that particular regiment or event? Do we then assume that no one sang?

"I" don't wan't anyone to do or document anything. I, and many I know, do things within the "niche hobby" to satisfy our own intellectual motives.

Danny doesn't even play in the niche hobby. At the events he plays Sweet Home Alabama is as embraced as Lorena. He NEVER posts here about commonly known and well supported pieces, it always the obtuse and vaguely supported. This then leads to a long thread (ultmately locked down) where he comes from all angles to surplant his ways in the body of folks known to take the P/E/C approach. Then those who followed him from the other 'streamer site come on and tell the ones who are trying and investing due dillegence when the standard has been met and to rein in our overboard historically representative ways.


I am a loser fatass streamer no-load. I am relugated to the worst most unrepresentative 'streamer events in the world...I am recovering today from a weekend in the saddle at such an event this past weekend. I was still committed to and tried at every oppty possible to bring a period correct and supported approach. It is tough and often very unfufilling, but my hobby is for me and lacking a good venue, getting it is a accurate as I can in the "stream" is what meets my needs and fuels my fire.

[riptailedroarer]

Originally Posted by riptailedroarer

Does any one know of the song " Babylon has fallen ( to rise no more)". I've found it was in the scard harp with music by W.E.Chute C.1878 but in other links it says the words are "traditional", and to confuse my search there is a vertion by henry work (?) and various Reggae artists.
I first heard the song when I was involved in English civil war reenacting in the 80s, great song to sing as you walk in to battle.with just the drum.
I have found the song on you tube being sung from the sacred harp, I just wondered if there was c/w tune for it.

this my question, nothing to do with Mr.work, the lyrics are thease, do thet predate the war?

BABYLON IS FALLEN (2)

Hail the day so long expected,
Hail the year of full release.
Zion's walls are now erected,
And her watchmen publish peace.
Through our Shiloh's wide dominion,
Hear the trumpet loudly roar,
Babylon is fallen to rise no more.

....Baaaaaa....(drawn out...with the rest following a half beat later)
Babylon is fallen, fallen, fallen
Babylon is fallen, to rise no more.

All her merchants stand with wonder,
What is this that comes to pass:
Murm'ring like the distant thunder,
Crying, "Oh alas, alas."
Swell the sound, ye kings and nobles,
Priest and people, rich and poor;
Babylon is fallen to rise no more.

Blow the trumpet in Mount Zion,
Christ shall come a second time;
Ruling with a rod of iron
All who now as foes combine.
Babel's garments we've rejected,
And our fellowship is o'er,
Babylon is fallen to rise no more.

[dculgan]

[quote=OldKingCrow;162537] He NEVER posts here about commonly known and well supported pieces, it always the obtuse and vaguely supported. This then leads to a long thread.

Makes for interesting reading though.
Dave Culgan
Camptown Shakers

[33rdaladrummer]

"Makes for interesting reading though."

Entertaining perhaps, but I wouldn't call it interesting...and it always turns into the P/E/C approach versus Danny's philosophy at the moment.

"What if no one's documented any specific song to that particular regiment or event?"

Even if we documented a handfull of tunes to a particular regiment (which I have actually done for drum corps, see thread on 148th Pennsylvania for example), we would still end up with a biased selection of tunes.

The P/E/C approach for music in my mind would be to try to at least start by building a "top 40" list of tunes from the period and then go from there. If you are a fiddler, start with Soldier's Joy. If you play the banjo, learn Old Dan Tucker. In order words, start with the songs and tunes that are all over the place in tune collections like Elias Howe's, banjo tutors, diaries, newspapers, regimental histories, etc.

The "other" approach is pick songs and instruments that you like and then try to see if they're "old enough." Dulcimers and Shenandoah might fit the bill if this is your method of researching your impression as a musician.

"Babylon has Fallen" falls somewhere in between "rare and not well-known" and "extremely popular". We don't know where exactly and will never know.

But it's not that hard to separate the wheat from the tares.

"this my question, nothing to do with Mr.work, the lyrics are thease, do thet predate the war?"

You're more likely to get your answer if you type "Hail the day so long expected" into google books than you will by asking on this forum.

[Hank Trent]

Originally Posted by riptailedroarer

this my question, nothing to do with Mr.work, the lyrics are thease, do thet predate the war?

See post #6 in this thread.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[riptailedroarer]

Thanks Hank, Just looking at the different vertions they all seam to have the same 1st verse and different ones to follow. I did find a vertion that came from the West Indies and refered to the abolition of slavery in the colonies.

[amity]

Riptailedroarer, would you be so kind as to post a link to that version from the West Indies? I would love to see that. '
Thanks.

By the way, did ayone happen to find an author listed for these lyrics?

[riptailedroarer]

Hi Terre, I found it here http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=4024#1334526 if you follow the link and scroll to the postings, find a post by "Q" 22 Nov '04 or ust read all the posts they are interesting.