Canteen Help

[lukegilly13]

Re: Canteen Help

I know this is an old thread but I couldnt' see a reason in opening a new one. Well, I purchased an Axel Ulrich version of a Cinci canteen with a tin spout. I got the canteen in and saw two things immediatly wrong. So, to help out others, I wanted to post a "good, bad, and ugly".
Lets start with the ugly:
1. The spout. It is not a rolled tin spout. It is a folded tin spout. There's not much you can do about a bad spout.
Now to the bad:
1. The sling keeper has a hole in it. My understanding on the Cinci canteen is that it should not as it were never intended for a chain. This is not listed in the ugly category because one could easily wrap the cork string so that the hole does not show.
2. The cork retainer string is not tightly twisted cotton. It appears to be jute. And not tightly twisted jute...but just a just string unbraided. This can be pretty cheaply fixed by purchasing the correct string and replacing the old.
The Good:
1. The diameter of the canteen is 7 3/4". This compares very closly to original canteens.
2. It is 2 3/8" thick at the center (with the cover on). This also seems to be pretty accurate to the thickness of original canteens.
3. The strap contains a nice contractor's stamp.

I'm debating on sending it back because of the spout. If federal were my primary impression then this spout would certainly not be acceptable. I can live with the hole in the sling keeper as I said because I can easily cover it up to where it is virtually undetectable.

[Jimmayo]

Re: Canteen Help

Why are you comparing the M1858 canteen diameter to the diameter of a tin drum? My original CD canteen is more like 3.5 inches thick. The sling keepers are also a little skinny ( 7/16 vs over 1/2 to 5/8 for non-CD canteens) and are a noticable feature. I think I would send it back. You can see several including the one I measured on http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/uscanteen.html

[Ulrich's Tin Shop]

Re: Canteen Help

Just thought that I would jump in on this one. If you purchase a Cincinnati canteen from Regimental Quartermaster it will have the hole for the jack chain, thats the way they order them. If you purchase one from S&S Sutlery or E.J. Thomas they will not have the jack chain hole. You can always order a canteen with or without wax also through S&S and E.J. you can order one hot dipped on the inside.

[rkg]

Re: Canteen Help

What about the canteen offered by W&W, anyone have one and can comment on it? I would like to get another canteen in the future and will be looking for the most authentic as well. Thanks.

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: Canteen Help

Bob,

I know our Cincinnati canteens have no hole in the loop but I am not sure about the lip of the spout. I just talked with Axel Sunday night and will give him another ring and see if a rolled spout is possible or folded is all he can offer.

[lukegilly13]

Re: Canteen Help

I don't know why I typed tin drum. I took it out of the post. I had too many things going on at once this morning when I made that post. I didn't measure the width of the sling keepers but I will when I get home this evening and see how they compare.
I compared the canteen measurements to the suggestions on the Lazy Jack page and I measured a smoothside on display at the national park that was recovered at Gettysburg as closely as I could without having the historian there to take it down from our display.

Dan, it could be that he is making some different versions. I have seen pictures on here of some he made that look better than the one I have (such as the one pictured a couple of posts above...but I believe that one is a pewter spout).

Jim, I went back and measured the width of the keepers. They are 5/8" on the reproduction....that's another negative. I think I will take your advice and send this one back and look for another.

[J.H.Berger]

Re: Canteen Help

George McGillis has some excellent rolled tin spouts available for his canteens. As for the width of the strap loops: I recommend studying O'Donnels book and as many originals as you can look at. You will find out that the width of the straps can even differ significantly even on a single canteen! So I wouldn't bother too much about that detail. Keep in mind these items were mass produced by people, not by CNC machines;-) If I have learned something about material during the Civil War then it is that tollerances are bigger than we might think nowadays.

[lukegilly13]

Re: Canteen Help

I contacted him (McGillis) last nigth and he replied this morning. He was making a canteen with the proper rolled spout. He sent me a beautiful picture...but added that his supplier of stamped parts was no longer in the business so he was out of CD's and did not know when he would get any. Thanks for the info on the sling keepers....I will definatly check that book out.

[D.W. Scalf]

Re: Canteen Help

Luke,

That's good to know....I must have gotten the last one of 2 George said he had left about 2 days ago. Didn't know he wouldn't have more though. For once, I'm not a day late and a dollar short! I'd previously ordered one of his for a buddy, and was very pleased with it.

[Jimmayo]

Re: Canteen Help

You will find out that the width of the straps can even differ significantly even on a single canteen! So I wouldn't bother too much about that detail. Keep in mind these items were mass produced by people, not by CNC machines;-) If I have learned something about material during the Civil War then it is that tollerances are bigger than we might think nowadays.

All four of these canteens have slightly different size sling loops. However it is very easy to pick out the CD tin spout canteen with the skinny loop. I believe if you are going to the trouble to roll a tin spout you should also include the somewhat distinctive sling loop.

This canteen is in my collection and the picture of another one on my page also has the skinny loop. Mike O'Donnell's book has a good representative number of the Cincinnati Depot Canteens. While the sling loops vary in size most are noticably more skinney than canteens made by other depots. There are also early Cinc canteens with petwer spouts. Some of these early white metal spout canteens appear to have a wider sling loop.

The CD received a waiver in April 63 from the Army to use the tin spout. Purchases of the tin spout CD canteen began on April 6, 1863. There are at least 2 contracts in 1863 numbering about 460,000 canteens that had the 3/8 inch sling loops. These are canteens # 230 and 231 of O'Donnells book. Without going into too much detail I think the generalization can be assumed that if you have a CD tin spout canteen the sling loops should be 3/8" to 7/16" or thereabouts. There is one canteen pictured in the book with two 7/16" loops and one 3/8" loop.

Just my .02

[D.W. Scalf]

Re: Canteen Help

My Bad....It was late in Australia when I read that thread. I got the last tin drum George had. I thought we were talking more about spouts.

[yipper]

Re: Canteen Help

Gents,

Do any of these recent models hold 3 pints, as did the originals, rather than the 2.5 pints common to reproductions?

Thanks,

geoffrey lehmannn

[lukegilly13]

Re: Canteen Help

Alright. So on the advice of many and my own thinking I returned the CD canteen. I called customer service at the Regimental Quartermaster and told them that I purchased the canteen from their Campaigner site and I told them what I was not happy with. They told me that they would tell management and get back with me. Later that day, someone called me back and told me that management said that they had already ordered a replacement and would be at their office in two days. They told me to mail my canteen back and they would make it right. Boy...did they ever. I got a CD canteen, again from Axel Ulrich with an original tin spout attached. The sling retainers are slimmer than the first. This one, is a dead ringer folks. A fantastic product from the maker and one could not expect a better result from contacting a vendor's customer service dept.
Now, what i got from the experience...there are some folks out there making a correct canteen. Axel is one of them. If you cannot look at a canteen that you are considering purchasing before you buy....call the vendor and ask about the details. My experience has been that they are VERY happy to share them with you. I will post pics of the canteen once I get the camera figured out.

[Material Culture]

Re: Canteen Help

Why are you comparing the M1858 canteen diameter to the diameter of a tin drum? My original CD canteen is more like 3.5 inches thick. The sling keepers are also a little skinny ( 7/16 vs over 1/2 to 5/8 for non-CD canteens) and are a noticable feature. I think I would send it back. You can see several including the one I measured on http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/uscanteen.html

Are all original smooth side oblate spheroid canteens 3.5 inches thick? Maybe that is where we should start making a stand?

Sam Hayle

[Jimmayo]

Re: Canteen Help

Are all original smooth side oblate spheroid canteens 3.5 inches thick? Maybe that is where we should start making a stand?

Sam Hayle

My CD canteen is a little fatty. Many US canteen have slightly different diameters and thickness.