Mixed Feelings

[aprather]

Re: Mixed Feelings

Wow I am surprised to read all of this negative criticism as the experiences I've had with this vendor have been nothing but positive. I bought a pair of brogans from him two years ago and they have been a great pair of shoes. They were sent promptly, fit well and have stood up to regular use. Ive been so pleased that I ordered a second pair from him. With this second pair there was a mix up in shipping and it appeared that they would not arrive in time for an event (as it worked out I received them the day before I left). When I told this to Robert he went out of his way to find a pair of shoes for me to use from a friendly vendor - and he did all of this extra work at no cost!

While it is unfortunate that some of you received laces that are subpar (a valid complaint), there have been several unjustified comments in this thread that suggest that Robert Land is the cheap and lower quality option when it comes to buying boots. That is simply false. The boots Ive received are of great quality and are reasonably priced, I dont think you can ask for much more in a product.

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Mixed Feelings

...there have been several unjustified comments in this thread that suggest that Robert Land is the cheap and lower quality option when it comes to buying boots. That is simply false...

Well, you're going to hate this...

He is cheap and not always trustworthy and kind.

Land and I argued for weeks over the abysmal quality of an eighteenth century shoe. He said that I got what I paid for... which was a machine made, fiber lined, dog marked, glue stained, supposedly hand sewn product. I returned the shoes. Land begrudgingly return the funds after a frustrating year and a half of non-replies via phone and email and eventual name calling from above the border (what is a time-twisting redneck?).

I ended up ordering the shoes from an "unmentionable" on this board and was very pleased with the product and the service.

[JimConley]

Re: Mixed Feelings

Photos on a website can be misleading! While we are all fond of having something to look at to get an idea of what we are buying, I have yet to open a box and see something that resembles what was photographed. You actually have to have the item in your hands to truly study it for what it is.

I learned my lesson with this vendor. I had never given his products any thought before I saw a pair of his Fredericksburg and Congress shoes that a messmate of mine picked up. I was pleased with the small, narrow cut of the heels as well as the contour of the soles. So, needing a new pair, I purchased the Workman's shoe from one of the several folks that carry this vendor's shoes in Gettysburg via mail order...

I put the laces out of my mind because I had always planned to replace them with linen (never been happy with any laces that come with reproduction shoes). Then, I noticed the stitching that runs along the back of the heels was guided by machine, which is fine by me, except that half of the linen thread that is used to actually close by hand was missing, leaving open holes and crooked machine stitches in their place. And I literally had to scrub out the inside of the shoes to peel away the lavish excess of glue (which had to be modern based on the consistency) that was scattered everywhere. But, despite those shortcomings, I put it aside, applied a few coats of oil to treat the leather, and put a few miles in them to break them in.

I wore these shoes to one event. The event was on private farm land, no concrete or gravel roads mind you, only dirt paths and cleared trails. While digging entrenchments and cutting down trees, I stepped on a rock at the toe. The rock punctured a small hole in the soft tip of the sole's toe. Now, either that was some vicious Tennessee stone, or soft, cheap leather. But, the extent of the damage to the sole, while small, punctured pretty deep and would require reconstructing all new soles. Also, after that single event, the dye was already beginning to wear away showing several blotches of brown leather and had to be re-blackened. The leather also has countless creases that do not seem to stem from the natural wear of walking, marching, or performing fatigue duties.

To this day, I still have not worn those shoes since that one event almost three years ago. And, the Fredericksburg shoe that my messmate has, the pair that I was so pleased with, also wore out within only a few events. I have basically concluded that I bought a pair of cheaply made and quickly constructed pieces of junk that have several signs of just simply cutting corners.

It seems as though at least a few of you have only been made happy with this vendor AFTER he fixed his mistakes. I will concede that I have seen some of his reproductions that were both constructed nicely and held up well. But I also feel that it is fair to state that this vendor is certainly inconsistent. It may even go beyond that given some of the camp fire talk and what I have personally seen with my own reproduction. The authenticity of the materials and construction methods can, and have been, called into question. And this is a vendor that I regrettably stuck up for a few times, which is embarrassing. I made a mistake, which is painfully clear now.

Before anyone asks, no, I did not and have not contacted Mr. Land about my shoes. I fear that there is far too much wrong with them to fix or replace. My contention is that he put his name on them, they are awful, and his business neither deserves my money or a breath of my support.

Two thumbs down for Mr. Land!

So... where can you buy good reproduction shoes these days?

MB&S Co: Always consistent, good patterns, materials, and construction. Robert is a gentleman, has a great knowledge of the CW and his trade, and I have always gotten exactly what I paid for.

MJN Boots: Looks like he's out of the game. Unless someone knows otherwise.

Williamsburg: Are these done with, or will those fellows be making runs here and there? I am out of the loop. Excellent reproduction. For those of you that thought they were going to have super tiny heels and really narrow cut, contouring soles, sorry. They made them directly from an original.

Lucas Berg: You can still find these here and there. He pops up, then goes unheard of for quite some time. Great, great products, just be aware that he is not always around and if you find his shoes, they will be already made. Doubt you'd ever be able to order from him.

Jan Berger: Have not personally had his reproductions in my hands, but I hear good things. Jan is skilled at his trade and seems to ever be searching for ways to improve and learn.

Cantrell: Expensive, but very nice reproductions. I'd like to see how they wear. Would certainly be worth the money if you could get some years out of them.

Fact of the matter is that finding good reproduction shoes has always been an issue in the hobby. There have been some folks that make great products, then disappear. And there will always be some drawbacks or concessions with even the better reproductions shoes too, as long as you accept them. I can honestly say that MB&S Co has been the most consistent and reliable source that I have dealt with. I fear what the situation will be like once he decides to hang up the apron and close up shop one of these days. The best pair of shoes that I have ever owned was the MB&S Co CS-1 Russet Shoe. The construction was meticulous of quality pattern and materials and they formed to my feet so damn well, I could wear them without socks (and did) without fear of blisters. I still sigh with regret for having sold them!

[Doughboy]

Re: Mixed Feelings

Another vendor who makes a very good shoe and has great communication is John Lammers at Cedar Creek Depot.

[JimConley]

Re: Mixed Feelings

Another vendor who makes a very good shoe and has great communication is John Lammers at Cedar Creek Depot.

Eh...not entirely sure about that. The Lammers are very nice folks, to be sure. But...

The shoes surely hold up. I know people that have been wearing them for well over 10 years. Not sure what they look like these days, but the leather that was used in 1990s was quality.

I have more of an issue with the exterior stitching and the cut of the soles. The exterior stitching is too large, for one, as compared to most of the originals that I have seen in photos and museums. Have never been fond of the thread used either. There is certainly better linen thread for reproduction leather items than what is being used in their reproductions. And, unfortunately, the stitching on those shoes stands out and certainly takes away from what could be a quality product.

Now, someone with better knowledge of shoemaking would have to weigh in about the detailed cut or the soles and heels. The only argument that I can offer is that they do not appear consistent with the appearance of originals. I do not know if they buy the soles pre-cut, or if they are constructed in-house, but some attention could better focused there.

And, I will say that even the folks that I have heard support their shoes typically throw in something along the lines of, "there are better out there, but you can't beat them for the price." Cedar Creek makes a good shoe regarding how long they last and the fact that they are a step above sutler row, but there are certainly better available. If you're looking for a shoe that lasts AND is closer to originals, you're already spending over $100, why not MB&S Co? Is it the wait or having to take measurements? Or is it the $45 difference in price? I would argue that given the increasing cost of leather these days, the effort and cost of production/tools, and the level of accuracy to originals that $160 is rather affordable.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Mixed Feelings

I am a big fan of MB&S products and am proud to use a number of their items in my impressions. However, their footwear is not an item that works for me. The width of the heel of their boots and shoes has increased over the years. If you view their products from the 1990's and compare to today, there is a drastic change. This pattern detail does not work with my feet and is not consistent with originals I've seen.

I'd be thrilled if they changed this one detail as I'd gladly buy their footwear, were it not for the heels they use.

I can, however, recommend Jan Berger's shoes. The pair I now own arrived in early 2009 and are the best fitting shoes I've owned. They are light weight and the "PMC" (Pattern-Materials-Construction) seems right on. I'm currently saving my pennies for some of his boots.