Confederate coinage

[Johnny Lloyd]

From Wiki:

As the Civil War continued, the cost of the war loomed large. Any precious metals available in the South often made their way to Europe to procure war goods. But the CSA did manage to mint a few coins. In 1861, Mr. Robert Lovett Jr. of Philadelphia was commissioned to design, engrave, and make a one cent piece for the Confederacy. He used the Liberty Head for the obverse. Using nickel, he made a few samples, of which only 12 are currently known to exist. Fearing prosecution for aiding the enemy, he stopped his work, and hid the coins and dies in his cellar. The original dies were purchased later and used to make restrikes.

Unknown until 1879, the Confederacy did strike a half dollar at the New Orleans Mint. Only 504 coins are known to have been made; 500 of those were sold, the reverses smoothed down and restruck with the Confederate die. Those are known as restrikes. Four originals, minted on a hand press, were used as test specimens and distributed to government officials for approval.

Discussion:

How "commonplace" would it be to find soldiers carrying Confederate coins? I figured from my readings since hard specie was rare to come by (precious metals being hoarded by citizens and soldiers alike in times of economic uncertainty) these coins would be quite rare just by sheer number (or lack thereof) along with the hoarding going-on of coins, jewelry, precious metals in any form, currency and even postage stamps.

Also, how serious was the Confederacy at minting coins anyway? I imagine not too serious, with precious metal shortages and US coins being just as good to use without any effort from the CS government. Also, inflation probably played a key factor in this effort being abandonded early in the war.

Anyone have any interesting commentary on the above from your research?

Thanks- Johnny

[ContinentalMorganGuard]

Re: Confederate coinage

From what all I've read and understand the south never made more then a few "samples". But if I understood correctly the New Orleans mint continued to produce coins, but only of the US type, or am I off base. I used to cary CSA coins but realized your typical johnny would not have had them, and if I was to carry coins in would be US coinage. Did states or banks do coins as well as paper money?

[Spinster]

Re: Confederate coinage

Everything I've found on the subject indicates that CSA coinage was exceedingly rare. (Even the sample packs commonly sold at NPS sites agree on this point). Thus, I would think that any hard currency in a soldier's pocket would be either of US government issue, or some of the more common foreign bullion coins of the period.

I've made no study of the newer immigrant populations or other areas of the country. Lower Alabama had strong ties to Spain and to France, and the presence of hoarded Spanish silver reales and Bonaparte gold Francs was common enough that examples still pop up in estates today with some regularity. Whether or not these coins held by the civilian populace made their way into military pockets, is another matter entirely.

[Roy Queen]

Re: Confederate coinage

When Georgia joined the Confederacy, the US Mint located in Dahlonega just simply closed. After the war, the old mint was used to quarter Federal troops, and was used as part of North Georgia College until it was burned in the 1870s.

Roy Queen

[PaulJ]

Re: Confederate coinage

Hi,
on the subject of coinage generally, (if not Confederate coinage) I understand that Victorian England increased the number of Gold sovereigns being minted to pay for the South's cotton. I wonder if any of those found their way into the pockets of Confederate Officers? I imagine quite a few would stay in England however - handed over to Confederate agents in England and then promptly handed on to English shipyards to pay for new blockade runners/ raiding ships/ supplies - that's just my speculation.
There is less speculation about the coin carried by Lt. George E. Dixon aboard the CSS Hunley submarine - he carried that at Shiloh when he was injured on 6th April 1862 - when he ranked as a Sergeant I believe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_E._Dixon

That was a "US $20 double eagle coin...minted in 1860". One snapshot of what one soldier was carrying, albeit as a sentimental item rather than currency.

[Tom Ezell]

Re: Confederate coinage

Probably exceedingly rare for Federal soldiers, exceptional for Confederates... and even then it would be some "foreign" coin such as a pre-war U.S. or Mexican item.

Common practice was to use "shinplasters" or fractional currency rather than coins. (See Corporal Si Klegg & His Pard by Hinman, and the McElroy versions for examples) Bob Sullivan had a nice little description of antebellum and wartime monetary practices on the Sullivan Press web site at one time...

Tom

[jwoodli]

Re: Confederate coinage

Interestingly enough, I actually have an original Confederate silver half-dollar coin, minted in 1861 I believe. The coin is at home along with my $100 Georgia note, and I'm at college, so I'll confirm the date and design ASAP. I know that there are tons of replicas out there, and I don't know if this is one. I got it from my great-uncle, who was a priest in Italy, and gave my mother(an Italian) the coins that they couldn't use from the communion basket. I also got an 1839 US quarter, 1855 US dime, and some old foreign stuff. Because of this, I'm hopeful that these coins are legit. Also, an interesting thing I just found out was that the Vatican was the only European country to legitimately acknowledge the sovereignty of the Confederacy, so maybe this might account for some CS currency in Italy.
I really don't know, but it sure as hell is interesting.

J.Dylan Woodliff
56th GA

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Confederate coinage

Interestingly enough, I actually have an original Confederate silver half-dollar coin, minted in 1861 I believe. The coin is at home along with my $100 Georgia note, and I'm at college, so I'll confirm the date and design ASAP. I know that there are tons of replicas out there, and I don't know if this is one. I got it from my great-uncle, who was a priest in Italy, and gave my mother(an Italian) the coins that they couldn't use from the communion basket. I also got an 1839 US quarter, 1855 US dime, and some old foreign stuff. Because of this, I'm hopeful that these coins are legit. Also, an interesting thing I just found out was that the Vatican was the only European country to legitimately acknowledge the sovereignty of the Confederacy, so maybe this might account for some CS currency in Italy.
I really don't know, but it sure as hell is interesting.

J.Dylan Woodliff
56th GA

Mr. Woodruff-

Can you provide a pic of said coinage/currency on here when you can? I'm sure everyone would love to see a picture of such. Me included... :)

-Johnny Lloyd

[jwoodli]

Re: Confederate coinage

I certainly will post pics as soon as I can. I should have taken some pictures earlier today when I was at home. What I did do was make a closer inspection of the CS half-dollar. There is no indication of it being a replica, no 'r' or 'replica' anywhere. And while I'm not an expert on metals, I truly believe this coin is silver, also because it had a sheen like old silver, which I polished off on one part and the shine was that of silver. The coolest thing I noticed was that the coin has a very subtle concavity to it, resulting in a gentle bulge on the Lady Liberty side. I'm guessing that the obverse, which isn't perfectly centered as is the front, was punched onto the coin leading to this minor bulge. I'd read that the minters ground off the original obverses of the lady liberty coins and then stamped the CS obverse onto them, and this coin is thinner than one might expect. Or maybe this is the mark of an old, silver fake.
Again, I'm just trying to figure this thing out.

[MD_Independent]

Re: Confederate coinage

According to my copy of the "Official Red Book, A Guide Book of United States Coins", the Confederacy minted only a few pattern pieces. An order for producing one-cent coins was placed with an engraver from Philadelphia named Robert Lovett. He made a grand total of 12 cents, but, fearing arrest by the US government, decided to stop production and hide the pattern pieces, dies, etc.

As for the CS half dollar, a grand total of four pattern pieces were produced, one going to Secretary Memminger who passed it on to Jeff Davis, one was kept by the chief coiner, and the other two going to two Louisianna doctors. Decades after the war, J.W. Scott of New York bought five hundred 1861 New Orleans mint half dollars, smoothed the reverses, and restamped them using the original CS dies. Through the years, there have been quite a number of restrikes produced, but only four true CS halves. Incidentally, the obverse of the CS half was exactly the same as the US halves.

The New Orleans mint didn't shut down operations immediately after the secession of Louisianna. The "O" marked halves of 1861 came out to over 2.5 million produced. Of these, 330,000 were made for the United States, 1.24 million for Louisianna after the secession, and almost a million after LA joined the CSA. They didn't change the pattern, so one minted for the US cannot be distinguished from another minted for the state of LA or the CS government. Production ceased due to a lack of bullion.

Basically, a CS coin is ALWAYS incorrect unless you are portraying Davis, the chief coiner of New Orleans, or some such. As for CS cents, again, never correct, but US coinage wouldn't be so bad for an impression. A couple of coppers or a half dime would be cool to see from time to time. Depending on condition, you can pick some up pretty cheap. In "Recollections of a Veteran or Four Years in Dixie" by J. Polk Racine(member of Co. I, 5th MD Inf., Racine states that, while in Baltimore's Camp Hoffman early in the war(fall 1861) he was paid $26 in brand new quarters. He also states that, later on, after being arrested for desertion and sent to Fort McHenry, another prisoner held him by the throat while the others went through his pocket, taking a small looking glass, a plug of tobacco, and a ten cent shinplaster. Later on, while assisting the surgeon, some of these prisoners came to enlist in the 5th MD for the bounties after escaping prison. Racine recognized them while they were being examined, informed the surgeon, and was given a reward. This reward consisted of "$5, all in five cent shinplaster-all in one sheet, just as they had come from the press- one hundred fastened together like postage stamps...". So shinplasters would, by all odds, be more correct than regular coinage anyway.

Tokens would also be appropriate. As the war dragged on, people began hoarding coins, starting with gold, then silver, and, finally, copper. Due to a severe shortage in small change in circulation, business owners stepped up and minted their own pieces, known today as tokens.


Billy Birney

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Confederate coinage

I'd read that the minters ground off the original obverses of the lady liberty coins and then stamped the CS obverse onto them, and this coin is thinner than one might expect. Or maybe this is the mark of an old, silver fake.
Again, I'm just trying to figure this thing out.

Wow, does anyone have more evidence of this happening? If so, that might make a unique addition to one's impression- a repro of a period silver coin with "CS" stamped over the original "US" markings.

Still eager to see some pics on this. :D

Thanks- Johnny Lloyd

[Furlough Frank]

Re: Confederate coinage

Johnny,

In 1987 a mass grave of Confederate soldiers who died at the Battle of Glorieta Pass, NM (March 1862) was excavated by archeologists. The confederate soldiers were from the 4th (?) Texas Mounted Volunteers. The coins were all USA minted not Confederate. Photographs are on a website nmculturenet.org. Of note is one half dollar clearly showing "O" for New Orleans mint. Unfortunately, the date is not noted. The photo is marked "Half dollar found on a Confederate soldier body, Glorietta Battlefield". If you can find (New Mexico) Archeology Notes 123 by Yvonne R. Oakes, 1995 there may be more information to be gleaned from it.

Also, the grave of Major John Shropshire Co. A. 5th Texas Mounted Volunteers was found nearby. It reportedly contained a gold coin found in his shoe. I would love to know more about that coin as well.

Yours aye,

Frank Campbell

"War makes thieves and Peace hangs 'em." - an old Scottish proverb