CS Jackets

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: CS Jackets

I'll let the pic do the talking here. I can see what appear to be civilians mixed in, but some of the folks wearing what appear to be civilian coats are not as easily dismissed.

I tend to shy away from absolutes ("always" and "never") in anything, but it seems especially true for CS soldiers. I think all posts thus far have all agreed that military coats are the ideal for mid-war east and west. Existing photographs are a small fraction of the photographs taken during the war. Many if not most have been lost. Also, several photographs referenced are really better resources for looking at hats or how gear was carried. Most coats are almost totally obscured by blankets and gear, or blurred by poor resolution in the photograph. So, I find myself at the old question, "Is the absence of evidence evidence of absence?"

My earlier post on this thread was more of a reflection of questions I get frequently from cost-conscious guys wondering what coat they can get to do "everything". My answer is typically that no such beast exists, but that you can usually get two CS coats to serve you for >90% of events. During 2001-2006 or 2007, and still today, we see a lot of early war and pre-war militia muster events. Enough so that someone without a civilian coat might find themselves a little out in the cold. Hence, my recommendation for a civilian coat (to me a civilian coat at, say Sharpsburg, makes a bit more sense than a military frock for a civilian-militia impression).

If guys have the means to secure many coats for their CS impressions, then by all means, leave the civilian coat at home for Gettysburg! But the guys who own an RD jacket & CD jacket & SB frock & a civilian impression & an overshirt weren't really the target of my post.

Best Regards,

[Slouch]

Re: CS Jackets

Some believe that the photo above includes 80-odd 5th VA Cav fellows who were captured in the engagement near Goose Creek Bridge, June 1863

[27thNCdrummer]

Re: CS Jackets

OK here are Confederate prisoners at a railroad depot in Chattanooga. There are some civilian coats in here.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: CS Jackets

Sorry to drag up an old thread like this, but...

I saw this pic in a member's (Iceman) album and just had to throw it on this thread. Gosh darn, but they look like civilian coats!

[Jeff Dugdale]

Re: CS Jackets

LibertyHallVols......

"Gosh darn, but they look like civilian coats!"

And they probably are.They are also holding 18 inch long 'bowie' knives.So on that basis would you say then that the 'Bowie' remained one of the more popular weapons throughout the war?Of course not.
The photo was most probably taken before they were issued uniforms.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: CS Jackets

Jeff,

After re-reading earlier posts in this thread, I rediscovered that your assertions about civilian coats were in reference to mid-war ANV. ...or at least that's how I read it.

Yes, these two gents are clearly early war.

[csuniforms]

Re: CS Jackets--Cadet Gray Butternut Brown-interesting

Hello, Just paging through the forum and saw this thread-- many of the posts are from 2008, just about a year ago. I wrote the book "Cadet Gray and Butternut Brown, a Collection of Notes on Confederate Uniforms and Clothing". This work has been generally accepted as one of the basic studies on the subject of Confederate clothing, and has stood the test of time, [if only a year and a half], as an honest researched work. That said, I made the statement in my book, that Confederate clothing research is far from over, and that I will never see all there is to see in my lifetime. This I stated, not as a disclaimer, but as the truth, that there is no such thing as a Confederate Uniform research expert. Someone who knows it all. All a researcher can do is throw out what he or she has found and hope that others can confirm, add-on, or find information that negates what you brought forward. All of it, even the negatives adds to ones knowledge.--
The thread started as a question as what a, "typical" Confederate for 1863 would be wearing, lets say at Gettysburg, July of 1863.--- Well, there are many "Contemporary" descriptions of the Confederate Army at Gettysburg, and these are open to interpretation. "Their dress was a wretched mixture of all cuts and colors", "dressed in gray and butternut and wore generally a short jacket, and a blanket strapped over his shoulder,"some wore jackets, others gray skirted coats trimmed on collars and sleeves," "the color of a Reb is not unlike that of ripe wheat."
How do we interpret these descriptions in our uniform appearance? Michael Winey's book on the Confederate Army at Gettysburg is also full of descriptions like these.--
Does anything go? No of course not. A Richmond Depot jacket? yes. A homemade Confederate jacket? yes. A Georgia frock? yes. Civilian hats and shoes? yes. Confederate made shoes and imported English shoes? yes. Lots of Federal gear like ponchos, blankets, canteens, haversacks? yes. Confederate wooden canteens? yes. Richmond hump-back muskets and Enfields? yes. Smoothbores? yes. -- A well dressed 26th North Carolina? yes. In NC jackets? we do have photographs!!!
Without dragging this on, I stated that a Confederate soldiers dress changed month to month, circumstance to circumstance, some chose to never take a piece of CS clothing from their quartermaster, and others had no choice.--
I am always glad to see the type of research here carried on by the Authentic Campaigner crowd, and, "in my opinion" believe the Campaingers to be the most informed and well researched group of individuals on the topic of Civil War material culture.

Tom Arliskas
CS Uniforms

[Secesh]

Re: CS Jackets

Personally Tom, I have found your book to be outstanding, and a treasured volume in my library. Best regards.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: CS Jackets

Tom,

Thank you for your post! It was very well-stated and well-placed. When discussing CS uniforms and equipment (sorta like discussions on Enfields), there seem to be few (if any) absolutes. This makes me cautious, if not skeptical, when I hear statements like, "Never..." and "Always...".

We have what we know, what has been documented, what has been observed, but also what is reasonable and likely. In building our impressions, I think a balanced approach is a good idea. Otherwise, not only would we all be running around in replicas of the same 20 or so coats, but we would develop too rigid and compartmentalized thinking on the subject resulting in blind-spots (an inability to see the obvious) as we read and research.

[Iceman]

Re: CS Jackets

Tom's post kind of jives with what was said by Mr. Robert Mullens (sic?), curator of the Museum of the Confederacy.

In a conversation that a friend was having with Mr. Mullens, of which I was present and witnessed, Mr. Mullens said that on a daily basis, he is constantly answering phone calls all day from reenactors asking him what should they wear. And all day, Mr. Mullens answers these daily phone calls with the answer of, "we don't know." The curator of the largest collection of American Civil War Confederate clothing and equipment honestly says that there's no way to know what the Confederate soldier was wearing (and I'm sure this is a comment about the Private in the ranks, not the documented officer, etc.). In the oppinion of Mr. Mullens, as long as the color, material, construction and fit of the garment is correct, that's as authentic as one can be, since there's no way to know exactly was was being worn.

[Richmond Depot]

Re: CS Jackets

Tom's post kind of jives with what was said by Mr. Robert Mullens (sic?), curator of the Museum of the Confederacy.

I believe that you mean Robert Hancock.

[Iceman]

Re: CS Jackets

Yes, Robert Hancock, is whom I was speaking of.

Thanks

[Dbackfed]

Re: CS Jackets

Not to be off subject, but I was wondering if there is any evidence to support Longstreet's Corps being given western jackets (i.e. Columbus Depot) before Chickamauga and taking the jackets back east?

[csuniforms]

Re: CS Jackets-Longstreets new Uniforms

Hello, Lontreets Corp received all new uniforms, gray RD 2 jackets, Light blue jean trousers, and caps just before they left Richmond. They received all new uniforms from North Carolina just before the Wilderness Campaign the following Spring.

Tom Arliskas
CSuniforms

[rebjeb04]

Re: CS Jackets

Hello Shawn,
I'm pretty partial to the "Mystery" or Mobile jacket. There seems to be enough evidence of these having been around in the East and West. Charlie Childs' pattern was drafted for one at G'burg Museum. Also one is in the collection of Gen. Sweeney's Museum near Springfield, Mo. That one was worn by an Arkansas boy. Of course there is the one in Echoes of Glory too.