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Telescoped (collapsed) Hardee hats in 1st Corps Black Hats?

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  • #16
    Re: Hardee hats

    Paul,

    I will be very interested in seeing your photogaphs. I have many ancestors on boths sides of my family that were from Rockbridge County, VA.

    Sincerely,

    Frank Campbell

    "War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." - Ambrose Bierce
    [FONT="Comic Sans MS"][I]Frank E. Campbell[/I][/FONT]

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Hardee hats

      I am assuming you are talking about the Iron Brigade (2nd 6th 7th Wis, 19th Ind, 24th Mich). Here are some original photos. Good luck finding one.
      Attached Files
      James Duffney
      61st NY
      Brave Peacock Mess

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Hardee hats

        "LukeG: That image of the "1st" VA Vol. Regt. Ifantry was taken at John Brown's hanging in December 1858 at Charleston, Virginia (now Western)...that's why they're wearing overcoats."

        Just a slight correction, SG.

        The hanging was 2 December 1859 and it was in Charlestown, Virginia. Charlestown has also been spelled as CharlesTown.

        Charleston is in the north central part of what is now West Virginia.
        Gil Davis Tercenio

        "A man with a rifle is a citizen; a man without one is merely a subject." - the late Mark Horton, Captain of Co G, 28th Ala Inf CSA, a real hero

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Hardee hats

          thanks for the info on the picture. My source lists that picture as taken just after the battle of manassas (time life). It being pre-war, would this mean that they are simply wearing federal uniforms? And if so, did they maintain these after secession?
          Luke Gilly
          Breckinridge Greys
          Lodge 661 F&AM


          "May the grass grow long on the road to hell." --an Irish toast

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Hardee hats

            Here is a pic of two housed in the West Point Museum, West Point NY.
            The first Hardee is that of 1st Sgt. Harlan Cobb, US Engineers. The second is a modified Hardee from John M. Mitchell, Co. F 79th Illinois Vol. Inf. The bullet hole in the crown was recieved at Liberty Gap, Tenn. June 25th 1863.

            Regards,
            [FONT="Comic Sans MS"][I]J.L. Hurst[/I][/FONT]

            [B][FONT="Arial Black"]Independant Rifles[/FONT][/B]

            [SIZE="1"][FONT="Trebuchet MS"][I]Like vandals of old through our land they did ride
            With Hunger and Death always close by their side.
            Came Terror, his herald - but the wailing comes first . . .
            We know he is coming, That demon called Hurst[/I][/FONT].[/SIZE]

            [SIZE="1"][FONT="Trebuchet MS"][I] Who ate my Nutter Butter!?!? Said the angry yet still hungry fellow from Gulf Port[/I][/FONT].[/SIZE]

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            • #21
              Re: Telescoped (collapsed) Hardee hats in 1st Corps Black Hats?

              I can't answer to the specific question at hand, but you might be interested to know that alteration of hats was, at various times and places, conducted in the face of strictures not to do so.

              I'll have to plow through my voluminous pile of notes, but, while going through the books of the 68th Indiana Volunteer Infantry at NARA, I found and wrote a general order expressly prohibiting alteration of dress hats. I recall this directive was issued soon after the 68th IVI arrived in Chattanooga for garrison duty (April - September 1864).

              Needless to say, such strictures were undoubtedly relaxed once the 68th headed back into the field in the late summer of 1864.

              Yours, &c.,

              Mark Jaeger
              Regards,

              Mark Jaeger

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Telescoped (collapsed) Hardee hats in 1st Corps Black Hats?

                This doesn't answer your question but I think it helps.
                These two photos from the Penisula Campaign imply that the alteration of issue hats began relatively early in the war. Notice in this photo the 'center-crease' alteration:


                Notice in this next photo that at least two of the three issue hats have an altered profile including a Kossuth/Army Hat with a telescoped crown. Also notice that the gentleman in the center still has all of his hat brass, even to the point of keeping the eagle on the underside of his brim, so I suppose he could put his brim bag up when the occasion called for full dress uniform.

                Yours, etc.,
                Matt White
                http://www.libertyrifles.org/
                http://www.cwurmuseum.org/
                http://www.military-historians.org/

                "One of the liveliest rows I had while in the service was with the quartermaster for filling a requisition that I made for shoes for my company, on the theory that no shoe was too large for a Negro, and he gave me all 10's and upwards. When I returned the shoes, informing him that my soldiers did not wear pontoons, he insisted that I should take them and issue them to my company anyway. Well, I didn't do it: consequently the row."
                -Robert Beecham 2nd Wisconsin/23rd USCT

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                • #23
                  Re: Telescoped (collapsed) Hardee hats in 1st Corps Black Hats?

                  You can see in the photo that I posted that two of the men have center creased hats, so that must mean that at least the 24th Mich did not have any standards about dress hat alteration. I would assume from that that men may also have teloscoped their hats, but until documentation presents itself, we will not know for sure.
                  James Duffney
                  61st NY
                  Brave Peacock Mess

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Telescoped (collapsed) Hardee hats in 1st Corps Black Hats?

                    Thanks guys. I realize there is not very good documentation of the wearing of these, but you have helped me better my impression. If anyone has anything else they would like to post, please do so.
                    Cpl. Ryan Halsey
                    Wampus Cats Mess
                    Mossy Creek Mess-SCAR
                    Breckinridge Greys
                    Liberty Rifles

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Telescoped (collapsed) Hardee hats in 1st Corps Black Hats?

                      This does not have anything to do with your original question concerning the Iron Brigade, but it is a great image of "telescoped" crowns on dress hats in the field. This is a Barnard image from the Atlanta Campaign.
                      Garrett W. Silliman

                      [I]Don't Float the Mainstream[/I]
                      [SIZE="1"]-Sweetwater Brewing Company, Atlanta, GA[/SIZE]

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                      • #26
                        Re: Telescoped (collapsed) Hardee hats in 1st Corps Black Hats?

                        Thanks for the image. That is a great one.
                        Cpl. Ryan Halsey
                        Wampus Cats Mess
                        Mossy Creek Mess-SCAR
                        Breckinridge Greys
                        Liberty Rifles

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Telescoped (collapsed) Hardee hats in 1st Corps Black Hats?

                          Well known photo of Co I 7th Wisconsin in Fredericksburg prior to heading north for the 2nd Manassas/Antietam campaign. Private front rank, second from left's hat appears to be peaked (or could it just be his feather at an odd angle?) A few look like they "may be" collapsed, but unless under a microscope, hard to tell....

                          [I][FONT="Garamond"]Jaime George
                          5th Virginia, Company A
                          Stonewall Brigade

                          "I'm doing much better, now that I've given up hope..."[/FONT][/I]

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                          • #28
                            Re: Telescoped (collapsed) Hardee hats in 1st Corps Black Hats?

                            Yeah I know, its hard to tell, but thanks.
                            Cpl. Ryan Halsey
                            Wampus Cats Mess
                            Mossy Creek Mess-SCAR
                            Breckinridge Greys
                            Liberty Rifles

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