Telescoped (collapsed) Hardee hats in 1st Corps Black Hats?

[Furlough Frank]

Re: Hardee hats

Paul,

I will be very interested in seeing your photogaphs. I have many ancestors on boths sides of my family that were from Rockbridge County, VA.

Sincerely,

Frank Campbell

"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." - Ambrose Bierce

[Duff]

Re: Hardee hats

I am assuming you are talking about the Iron Brigade (2nd 6th 7th Wis, 19th Ind, 24th Mich). Here are some original photos. Good luck finding one.

[MuleyGil]

Re: Hardee hats

"LukeG: That image of the "1st" VA Vol. Regt. Ifantry was taken at John Brown's hanging in December 1858 at Charleston, Virginia (now Western)...that's why they're wearing overcoats."

Just a slight correction, SG.

The hanging was 2 December 1859 and it was in Charlestown, Virginia. Charlestown has also been spelled as CharlesTown.

Charleston is in the north central part of what is now West Virginia.

[lukegilly13]

Re: Hardee hats

thanks for the info on the picture. My source lists that picture as taken just after the battle of manassas (time life). It being pre-war, would this mean that they are simply wearing federal uniforms? And if so, did they maintain these after secession?

[JLHurst]

Re: Hardee hats

Here is a pic of two housed in the West Point Museum, West Point NY.
The first Hardee is that of 1st Sgt. Harlan Cobb, US Engineers. The second is a modified Hardee from John M. Mitchell, Co. F 79th Illinois Vol. Inf. The bullet hole in the crown was recieved at Liberty Gap, Tenn. June 25th 1863.

[markj]

Re: Telescoped (collapsed) Hardee hats in 1st Corps Black Hats?

I can't answer to the specific question at hand, but you might be interested to know that alteration of hats was, at various times and places, conducted in the face of strictures not to do so.

I'll have to plow through my voluminous pile of notes, but, while going through the books of the 68th Indiana Volunteer Infantry at NARA, I found and wrote a general order expressly prohibiting alteration of dress hats. I recall this directive was issued soon after the 68th IVI arrived in Chattanooga for garrison duty (April - September 1864).

Needless to say, such strictures were undoubtedly relaxed once the 68th headed back into the field in the late summer of 1864.

Yours, &c.,

Mark Jaeger

[fire_zouave]

Re: Telescoped (collapsed) Hardee hats in 1st Corps Black Hats?

This doesn't answer your question but I think it helps.
These two photos from the Penisula Campaign imply that the alteration of issue hats began relatively early in the war. Notice in this photo the 'center-crease' alteration:

http://www.libertyrifles.org/research/darkblues62/artillery.jpg

Notice in this next photo that at least two of the three issue hats have an altered profile including a Kossuth/Army Hat with a telescoped crown. Also notice that the gentleman in the center still has all of his hat brass, even to the point of keeping the eagle on the underside of his brim, so I suppose he could put his brim bag up when the occasion called for full dress uniform.

http://www.libertyrifles.org/research/darkblues62/csfort.jpg

[Duff]

Re: Telescoped (collapsed) Hardee hats in 1st Corps Black Hats?

You can see in the photo that I posted that two of the men have center creased hats, so that must mean that at least the 24th Mich did not have any standards about dress hat alteration. I would assume from that that men may also have teloscoped their hats, but until documentation presents itself, we will not know for sure.

[Ryan Halsey]

Re: Telescoped (collapsed) Hardee hats in 1st Corps Black Hats?

Thanks guys. I realize there is not very good documentation of the wearing of these, but you have helped me better my impression. If anyone has anything else they would like to post, please do so.

[Garrett Silliman]

Re: Telescoped (collapsed) Hardee hats in 1st Corps Black Hats?

This does not have anything to do with your original question concerning the Iron Brigade, but it is a great image of "telescoped" crowns on dress hats in the field. This is a Barnard image from the Atlanta Campaign.

[Ryan Halsey]

Re: Telescoped (collapsed) Hardee hats in 1st Corps Black Hats?

Thanks for the image. That is a great one.

[fytn5th]

Re: Telescoped (collapsed) Hardee hats in 1st Corps Black Hats?

Well known photo of Co I 7th Wisconsin in Fredericksburg prior to heading north for the 2nd Manassas/Antietam campaign. Private front rank, second from left's hat appears to be peaked (or could it just be his feather at an odd angle?) A few look like they "may be" collapsed, but unless under a microscope, hard to tell....

http://images.wisconsinhistory.org/700099990229/9999004009-l.jpg

[Ryan Halsey]

Re: Telescoped (collapsed) Hardee hats in 1st Corps Black Hats?

Yeah I know, its hard to tell, but thanks.