Civil War pocket watches

[Dutchman Dick]

Just what kinds of pocket watches are considered "non-farb"? I collect old watches (don't have many, as they don't often come cheap!). I just won my first key wind/set watch on Ebay (my other watches are stem wind/set and therefore definitely "farb"). I believe it's Swiss and has an open face with a cylinder escapement, and a silver case, set and wound through the back. No idea how old it really is, and it will need a bit of work before it runs again, but would this watch likely be OK for a C.W. impression?

[New Jerseyman]

Re: Civil War pocket watches

Real key is learning who made the watch. It should have a rear cover that can be opened to reveal the inner works. You might find the maker's name and even serial numbers that can be cross-referenced at this web site: www.oldwatch.com.

I have an American Waltham, made in 1866, the same make/model as the watch Lincoln and many CW soldiers carried. Got it on ebay as well, and when I took it to a watch repairman he said he could still see/detect the whale oil they used to lubricate the works. Pretty neat.

Good luck.

[MELowe]

Re: Civil War pocket watches

(my other watches are stem wind/set and therefore definitely "farb").

Be careful there, friend. Just because it doesn't have a key, doesn't mean its "farb". Various non-keyed winding machanisms existed prior to 1860, and would be appropriate to carry (if thoroughly researched, and providing you had the money to purchase one).

The first self-winding mechanical pocket watch was invented ca. 1770, by Abraham-Louis Perrelet. Charles-Antoine LeCoultre invented a pendant (or stem) winding watch in 1847 which is the basis for those modern watches at Wal-mart. I have, however, seen unique stem winding and/or setting watches in museums dating to the 1820s and before.

As Mr. Green suggested, researching the maker is a great help. Your average Waltham or Elgin stem wind/set may not be appropriate, but a gold 1850 LeCoultre may be just the thing for a young man whose steel baron father refused to pay the $300 commutation fee.

Your obd. serv't,

[Union Navy]

Re: Civil War pocket watches

Try here:

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7975

Any keywind is probably prefereble to any stemwind. Stemwinds were extremely rare before the war and only found on a few of the most expensive watches. Anything the average American was likely to carry was keywind. Also depends on size - men usually carried 18 or 16 size, rarely 14. Smaller were considered women's watches. Silver case is more accurate than gold: gold cases of CW vintage would have been solid, not the later gold-filled (though the process was pantented in 1859). Silver was more prevalent for a CW soldier. Good luck getting parts for a European Swiss watch - there were so many makers that your chances of finding the correct repair parts is minimal.

[c.irelan]

Re: Civil War pocket watches

Hello

Let's open some discussion on watch faces. Although there are many veriations I'm sure most would agree that the most common were roman numbered but even in this one needs to be careful mainly with the #4. What we call The #4 now is the (IV) (5-1=4)
but what many from the time saw as the common was (IIII) as the #4.

[James Slonders]

Re: Civil War pocket watches

My 1862 Watch has all Roman Numerals on the face. The face is white, and is made of ceramic

James Slonders

[New Jerseyman]

Re: Civil War pocket watches

Great point about faces. My Waltam has the Roman numerals IIII for 4. I'm told the faces were hand-painted.

[VanceGuardsLT]

Re: Civil War pocket watches

As mentioned previously, stemwind/set watches appeared before the Civil War, but only on very expensive European models. Although an 18-size American Watch Company Model 1857 keywind/set watch (like the William Ellery-grade AWC watch carried by Lincoln) would be period correct for the Civil War, most Americans couldn't afford them. The cheapest models would have cost nearly two months pay for a working man. A better choice for a reenacting watch would indeed be a Swiss keywind/set, as they flooded the American market between ca. 1850 and 1880. They were sort of the "Timex" of 19th-century watches, at least until companies like Waterbury and Ingersol started making dollar watches in the 1890s. Look in the pages of any newspaper from 1861-1865 and you can see ads for cheap watches. These were undoubtedly Swiss watches.

The problem with Swiss watches is that, unlike their American counterparts which were mass produced using fine tolerances and (mostly) interchangeable parts, Swiss watches were made one at a time, individually by hand. Also, just because you find a name on the face or works of a Swiss watch doesn't mean that was the name of the maker. Swiss watchmakers made literally millions of movements which were sold to jewellers and watch sellers for housing in their own cases, and theyse houses often put their own names upon the dials and/or movements. It can be nearly impossible even for an experienced watch collector to identify a Swiss watch to a particular maker.

So, if you can find a Swiss keywind/set watch that is in decent shape and doesn't need anything more than a cleaning to get it to keep time, then that would be a good start. However, if your Swiss timepiece needs any kind of major work, such as mainspring replacement or a new cylinder staff (or anything else replaced, for that matter), then my advice to you is find another watch that is in better shape. It would cost more to fix an old Swiss watch than it would to buy another.

A wealthy man in the 1860s would probably have carried an English watch, as they were the gold standard in timekeeping then. Or, if they wanted something really fancy, a French complicated watch.

[Union Navy]

Re: Civil War pocket watches

Most "faces" (called dials in the trade) were hand painted, often by women, whose smaller hands and greater dexterity were conducive to such work. As for the IV vs. IIII, my research shows that the use of IIII was for aesthetic reasons, to balance the VIII on the opposite side of the centerline on the dial. Past that, it does not tell you anyting about the age or maker.

[Dutchman Dick]

Re: Civil War pocket watches

Okay, now here's another, related question: what sorts of watch chains, fobs, charms, or other sundry accoutrements for watches would be appropriate for the AVERAGE Civil War soldier? Someone who maybe wasn't from a dirt-poor farm family, but definitely not well-to-do, either? What we might call middle-class nowadays, in other words. Obviously such a person would not likely have a solid gold chain (unless it was given as a gift, or won in a card game, or inherited as an heirloom, or some other such other-than-ordinary circumstances). I'd like to get something appropriate for my watch that will keep it and its key together and keep both from getting lost at the same time.

[Union Navy]

Re: Civil War pocket watches

Silver was common, and hair, ribbon, even leather were occasionally used. Most would have no fobs, charms of other gewgaws to come loose and get lost. These were practical fellows.

[gunboats1861]

Re: Civil War pocket watches

Hello, I belong to the national association of watch and clock collectors; my first suggestion to you is to call the association in columbia PA and find out if they can give you more information on period correct chains and watch makers. Second, pick up the "Complete Price Guide To Watches" by Richard E. Gilbert, Tom Engle, Cooksey Shugart; by the way Mr. Gilbert and Mr. Engle run Ashland Investments in Sarasota Florida these two men are a wealth of knowledge. Third, try to stay with American makers the european market was making alot of cheap watches that where not meant to tell accurate time and parts are very hard to find. Lastly, if you must have a european watch then try to find a Tobias this was a very well made watch, sturdy works one of the first european makers to put shock absorbers on the ballance staff jewel (breguet's parachute 1789)

Myself, I prefer the The American Waltham Watch Company 1851-1867 model 1857 ,11jewels, kw/ks, 18 size , 6oz coin silver hunters case a very robust watch one could purchase this watch for the price of $16.00 dollars before the war, then like now the price went to $175.00 dollars during the war. My chain is coin silver with a silver shepards crook look at pictures of Old Abe he has a fine silver chain with shepards crook and i've seen pictures of common soldiers wearing large chains with crooks or t-bars( sometimes referedto as button bars) Its all in how you want to spend that 13.00 dollars a month. Final thought ,make sure you buy from a reputable dealer please... please... please... don't buy from ebay ! because some times the balance staff is broken and that my friend is expensive to have replaced always make sure the balance staff and balance wheel as well as the hair spring are intact. I'm available for any questions I hope this helps all of you, theres nothing like the ticking of an old watch in ones tent, enjoy.

Best Regards,
Ted Wojciechowski

[Dutchman Dick]

Re: Civil War pocket watches

I have an old men's watch chain with a t-bar that came from my grandmother's estate. The links appear to be copper or red brass. I have no idea how old it is, though. ANy way to date a watch chain, i.e. certain features/materials not used before/after a certain date?

[Rob]

Re: Civil War pocket watches

please... please... don't buy from ebay !

I bought an 1883 Elgin on eBay. It keeps time to about five seconds per day. Not too shabby for only a 7-jewel movement. (Just lucky, I guess.) ;)

By the way, Ashland has an eBay store - they have some awesome pocket watches for sale. So don't count out eBay entirely. You just have to watch your step very carefully. If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.

[dwar]

Re: Civil War pocket watches

Gents
Check out The Pocket Watcher.com