C.S. Trousers

[deovindice11]

I'm fairly new to reenacting and I am trying to upgrade my impression now that I have some extra money, I was just wondering the best(authentic) trousers to purchase. I do a late war (63,64) confederate Engineer impression. I know that our clothing was reported as "inferior" and our military appearance as "lax" as one report has indicated. any help would be appreciated thanks!

[Duff]

Re: C.S. Trousers

Check out the list of approved vendors. You will be safe with any of them.

[lukegilly13]

Re: C.S. Trousers

First, be sure and sign your full name to every post! The Mods will get ya quickly for that.
Now to your question, it is going to depend on what theater/unit you portray. If you are ANV it could differ a bit from AOT. By "lax military appearance" do you think they mean poor clothed or do they mean not well maintained such as equipment not buffed, rifles not cleaned, etc? Depending on the location and action of the unit you are portraying, you may want to look into civilian trousers. Just by reading your description I get the mental picture of a motley crew of men who aren't so much on going to see the quartermaster and laundress. Of course you might want to look into some captured federal (if you are perhaps crossing an old battlefield). You could go with CS issue trousers but you would want to research which depot made this issue. You basically have several choices:
1. Civilian purchase
2. Confederate Depot Issue
3. Captured Federal
A great place to check out would be Stony Brook

http://www.stonybrookcompany.com/

I would recommend their Royal Blue cs/civilians. I have seen a few in the field and they are VERY impressive.
The main thing to remember is that NOTHING can substitute for a definate source...research, research, research, and see if you can find a picture, letter home, quartermaster issue (unlikely with CS), or some source revealing the appearance of clothing. Hope this is helpful.

[tenfed1861]

Re: C.S. Trousers

I would avoid the caputred Federal trousers as they would only work for a few units during fall of 1862.Military,British made,or civie would be the best trousers to get.

[Duff]

Re: C.S. Trousers

I agree. "Battlefield pickup" trowsers is one of the most ridiculus things I have ever heard. Lets use some common sense here. Stripping the pants off of a dead soldier is bad enough. Lets add the fact that they are most likely covered in blood and other matter. He has been on the same campaign you have been on, and depending on the circumstances, his pants may be just as beat up and ripped as yours. God knows where else they have been. Would you take them? I wouldn't touch them, let alone wear them. In all the photographs I have ever seen of battlefields, I have never seen a man without pants.

Sorry, rant over.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: C.S. Trousers

I'm fairly new to reenacting and I am trying to upgrade my impression now that I have some extra money, I was just wondering the best(authentic) trousers to purchase. I do a late war (63,64) confederate Engineer impression. I know that our clothing was reported as "inferior" and our military appearance as "lax" as one report has indicated. any help would be appreciated thanks!

"Mr. Vindicator",

It would help if your report of "inferior" clothing could be posted, so that we may more accurately interpret the information at hand. I'd also be very interested in what reports you have that the military appearance of these men was "lax". Without seeing either of these reports it is difficult to offer advice. It would also help to note, where the Engineers were functioning...

Seeing as your'e on the West Coast...getting into museums to view originals may be rather limiting...if that is the case, I recommend you start by getting a copy of Echoes of Glory (Confederate), and also the Museum of the Confederacy publication A Catalog of Uniforms (available through the Museum of the Confederacy Museum Store).

Also note, that a number of Museums (like the Virginia Historical Society, and the North Carolina Museum of History) have images of uniforms available for viewing through their websites:

http://www.vahistorical.org/

http://ncmuseumofhistory.org/

In the end...it's best to look at surviving originals, documented images, and official reports in effort to make the best informed decisions with regards to clothing and equipment.

The following statement may offend some...but, Confederate Reenactors (Hardcore Stitch Nazis, Progressive, FARBs...etc.) today tend to perpetuate this mythology of the ragged, unmilitaristic, backwoods yahoo...and while the original armies certainly had some of those individuals who fit that bill...this is far from the common soldier...and it needs to end.

At many stages in the war, certainly clothing was reduced to rags, and men suffered because of it...but this was almost always followed up REGULARLY with what was needed to keep the armies functioning...maybe not posh silk threads...but you get the point.

"DEATH TO THE RAGGED REBEL MYTH!"

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: C.S. Trousers

Hallo!

Welcome to the AC Forum!

Moderator Hat on...

Herr Dustin. Yes, it is an AC Forum rule that all posts be signed. I would suggest using the automatic signature feature to set one up automatically.

And,

NUG, questions along the lines of "best" or "authentic" are generally discouraged because the standard to strive for is more along the lines of:

1. What does research and documentation for the unit one is portraying as to unit, time, and place show was the clothing and gear used, and

2. Who among the AC Forum Approved and unapproved vendors make them. And

3. While no one wants to throw away money on items and articles they cannot use and come to regret buying, the larger goal is to strive to understand why a a particular maker's or vendor's widget article is "authentic" rather than just "Who makes the best Widget?"

(Yeah, it does get easier...really. ;) :) )

Curt

[deovindice11]

Re: C.S. Trousers

Wow, I really appreciate all of the help guys, it is very welcoming and good to know that I can make the transitition to a more authentic impression with the help of many. I do know I have a ways to go, but i have time. that being said the link the report I am talking about can be found here www.hartsengineers.com Click on the "1864 Roster" on the left to find it. I have been doing some research and it seems that Engineer units were toward bottom of the list to receive uniforms and such things since they were usually not on the front lines of battle. I think some civilian purchase pants might be best, also I'm glad someone finally has pointed out the "myth of the ragged rebel", thanks Stonewall Greyfox I agree.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: C.S. Trousers

Wow, I really appreciate all of the help guys, it is very welcoming and good to know that I can make the transitition to a more authentic impression with the help of many. I do know I have a ways to go, but i have time. that being said the link the report I am talking about can be found here www.hartsengineers.com Click on the "1864 Roster" on the left to find it. I have been doing some research and it seems that Engineer units were toward bottom of the list to receive uniforms and such things since they were usually not on the front lines of battle. I think some civilian purchase pants might be best, also I'm glad someone finally has pointed out the "myth of the ragged rebel", thanks Stonewall Greyfox I agree.

Dustin,

Not to be harsh...but the linked website hardly constitutes as "research".

I followed the link to the Company Roster as directed...and while it was "cool" that it listed the names of presumably the original soldiers...it would appear that from the very top of the page, the webhoster got it wrong (calling this a MUSTER ROLL, unless they in fact Mustered in March of 1864)...you "Mustered In" upon Enlistment...subsequent Rolls were formed from Subsequent Reports.

Unfortunately, the "inferior" and "lax" descriptions listed on the website provide no real insight into their original context...were these elements the webhost has added to fill out the page...or were these actually included on the Roll?

As an interpretive impression...or even functional (take the recent action at Picket's Mill), I think that properly researched/documented Engineers and Pioneers have a place in hardkewl events...but this is something that definently needs to be delved into much deeper than perusing modern unit websites.

Paul B.

[lukegilly13]

Re: C.S. Trousers

I agree with Duff and Tentfed....it is good to research your unit before deciding to use federal clothing in your confederate impression. I live close to knoxville...I have read several letters where soldiers in the area comment that "the secesh, running around dressed in caped overcoats and light blue trousers, look to be better than the federals." The soldier goes on to say how he fears an attack as there would be mass confusion of who's who. I'm 4 hours from home or I would quote/cite the letter exactly. I think more common than battlefield pick up is maybe supply intercept/capture.

[tenfed1861]

Re: C.S. Trousers

During the time the Confederates were in Knoxville,light blue trousers were very common on Confeds.It is possible it was English enlisted man's trousers,or saxon blue broadcloth.A number of Longstreet's boys at Chickamagua were in Tait jackets and English trousers.After Chickamagua,they are sent up to Knoxville.So that is where it may be coming from.
Hope this helps some.

[Duff]

Re: C.S. Trousers

I noticed on your website it said that you primary impression in the Shenandoah Valley of Western Virginia. That means you impression is considered "Eastern Theatre" though some will argue that that particular campaign is a cross between the eastern and western theatres. This is important because the men of the west and east only had a superficial resemblance of each other.

[deovindice11]

Re: C.S. Trousers

As Duff said, our unit spent most of its time fighting under Breckenridge and Early in the Shenandoah campaign, and I will have to agree that if the confeds were spotted in "yankee" trousers they would have most likely been from a captured supply and not off of any dead yanks. I cant imagine pulling pants off of a dead soldier, and i dont think they would have either.

[OldKingCrow]

Re: C.S. Trousers

A number of Longstreet's boys at Chickamagua were in Tait jackets and English trousers.After Chickamagua,they are sent up to Knoxville.

Can you share the research that shows "Tait" jackets at Chickamauga ?

Thanks in advance