Musicians Armaments

[Iron Brigade Ed]

Hello all, first posting here so hope i get it right.

Question:
Musicians (buglers particularly) . .would they be seen with 'long arms' or simply with pistols? Would it be reasonably correct to see them with either 'in action' (picked up off the floor perchance?). What were they issued with? i've seen 'swords' mentioned in Sutlers catalogues!
Also i've seen illustrations of musicians in heavily 'frogged' jackets, worn 'in the field' or not? Thoughts/comments/observations/sources welcomed!

All the best

Ed
19th Indiana (UK)

[Shantyman]

Re: Musicians Armaments

The Dress and Battle Dress Fatuige for the USM unifourm regs specify the M-1840 Muscean Sword worn on the waistbelt. There is a a picture of the USM band w/ swords outside I think the Washington Navy Yard or USM barraks. I think some US Regular regs. state the same for the Dress Unifourm worn on a baldric. Of corse, its just the regs. I can say from experiance that marching for about a mile and playing a snare its very tempting to leave a sword sitting on the roadside. As for "battlefield pickups" musceans durring battle often served as stretcher bearers, I dont nessisarly see the need for armerment. In some circumstances it might have happend. Maybe the odd drummer may have brought a pistol from home early in the war. As for "birdcages" I havent seen many, Ill let someone else touch that.

[McKim]

Re: Musicians Armaments

In the 5th Virginia Infantry history it mentions that the musicians were issued, if memory serves me, Belgian rifles. Unfortunately this only raises questions and does not offer an explanation.

[Hardtack Herring]

Re: Musicians Armaments

Mr. Dolzall,

That is very interesting. I have never heard of musicians being issued riffles.

I find the regiment you mentioned even more interesting as the 5th was part of the Stonewall Brigade.

Could you please post documentation of the musicians of the 5th Va. being issued riffles?

Thank you,

[csabugler]

Re: Musicians Armaments

I believe the Musicians sword was regulation , no other "issue" for US, but regs are not my specialty. Musicians were "noncombatants" and usually not armed in practice. CS was all over the board IMHO.
Field pick-ups, personal weapons,etc, were of course always possible. Rifles would be a waste, as you cannot "shoot and toot". They are mutually exclusive. A bugler in the firing line is an ineffective as a single musket behind the line with the officers.
I usually carry a pistol (wish I had not at the Mill last weekend ), especially if my alleged friends are in the field mounted and opposing me!
Although I can not document it specifically, my individual personality would not allow me to be on a field of combat without some form of self-defense.
And then there is the possibly modern romanicized notion of protecting the officer

[27thNCdrummer]

Re: Musicians Armaments

I forget exactly where I read this but I remember a young drummer from a Tennessee regiment saying that when he enlisted he was issued a revolver. This was a Confederate unit too. Sorry I don't have the reference.

[Camp_Randall]

Re: Musicians Armaments

In studying a particular regiment, the 31st Wisconsin, which was formed late 1862, I found that many men went out and bought their own revolvers, so much the commanding officer had to issue an order forbidding them from buying any more.

The musicians must have had the same inclination to arm themselves, because during the summer of 1863 while training on the Mississippi River the drummer boy still carried a revolver. A funny little story, apparently while the regiment's musicians were practicing outside of the fort they came across a wild pig and the drummer boy shot it and hid it in his drum. Later they had dress parade and the drummer still had the pig in his drum!

Did the drummer boy still carry his pistol on campaign? I don't know. Up to this point the 31st had only been training and in garrison.

My source is the memoirs of Abel Steele of the 31st.

Tim Surprenant

[Iron Brigade Ed]

Re: Musicians Armaments

Many thanks for all the feedback chaps . . more food for thought i suspect. I will try to pass it on!

[Bummer]

Re: Musicians Armaments

Photographs often show musicians with the musicians sword--worn from a belt frog, not the NCO baldric. And nothing else in the way of weaponry.
There are some pretty good photos showing some musicians wearing the round eagle breast plate as a belt buckle for this. Most likely an NCO sword baldric plate with the hooks put in at a different angle, although I have a dug one which has only two hooks (not loops) rather than three, that allow it to be worn 'right side up' on a waist belt.

[TheRegularsDrummerCo.H]

Re: Musicians Armaments

I was reading this about Johnny Clem. I thought I remebered hearing they issued him a rifle.
"Some accounts claim that Clem first had been permitted to join the Twenty-Fourth Ohio Volunteer Infantry. Other sources claim that Clem joined the Twenty-Second Michigan Infantry Regiment when it marched through Newark. Since Johnny Clem was too young to join the army officially, officers of the Twenty-Second Michigan contributed money to pay him a monthly wage. Soldiers provided him with a gun and uniform and trained him to be a drummer boy."
Also
"During the retreat, a Confederate colonel ordered Clem to surrender. Rather than to give up, Clem raised his rifle and killed the colonel."
The link is http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=85

[Dusty Merritt]

Re: Musicians Armaments

I once read a letter, reprinted in a Connecticut newspaper, by a drummer boy in the 10th Connecticut who claimed to have captured a Rebel at Morris Island by somehow pretending his field glass was a pistol. He was otherwise unarmed.

[markj]

Re: Musicians Armaments

I've posted the attached analysis to a previous thread, but some might find this interesting. I selected the returns for the 3rd Quarter 1863 as a "snapshot" since the period 1 July - 30 September 1863 incorporated heavy campaigning on multiple fronts and, of course, included several major engagements in which Indiana units were involved.

Draw from it what you will. However, as you'll quickly note, there were significant inconsistencies of reported musician swords within individual regiments, not to mention gaps in the reports from the field. Many companies didn't report any swords on-hand at all, while other companies were apparently at, or near, their "T/E" numbers.

One quick note: the 13th IVI did, in fact, also serve exclusively in the East. I didn't notice this error until after I'd created the pdf, so I apologize.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[LonestarRifles]

Re: Musicians Armaments

This former thread covers a little of the role of Musicians in battle:


Firing by the Drum

[Indianabugles]

Re: Musicians Armaments

As a bugler I do like to carry the sword and wear the birdcage but have now abandoned a sash and gained a backpack.
Former thinking in our society had requested that I carry as musket as well.
Now I know this is a bugler thing, but there is one thing that this unconfortable exedient did prove, and I would think it would apply to fifers also.
Gunpowder is Hydrostatic, it eats up your moisture, bite up three rounds and then see how adverse an effect it has on your ability to bugle.

Christian Sprakes
19th Regimental Musician.

[Renvilleranger21]

Re: Musicians Armaments

What I think that hasn't been said here is that a musician is exactly like a modern day radio man. Their job was to relay orders while in battle, where an officers voice would not carry because of the noise of battle. If deployed correctly a musician would be very near the commander of whatever particular unit (company, battalion, regiment) they were a part of and the weapon protecting them was the line of soldiers with muskets ahead of them. There are very few actual primary accounts of musicians being utilized as combatants in battle. Of course there are a few famous ones, but this was the exception not the rule. If a musician was concerned with being a combatant in battle then they were not doing their job of relaying orders.

Andy Timmer

The I have done more primary research on musicians than I care to admit mess