Columbus Depot Buttons

[Joe Walker]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

Jim,

The National Archives has the Confederate Business Records from the Eagle Mfg Company in Columbus. Perhaps someone who has researched these records can tell us. I have info given to me from someone who did some research from these records about seven years ago but all of it is about cloth. It is my understanding that the Eagle Mill's only customer was the Confederate Gov't which I guess gets problematic with the early War concept of commutation for clothing. I for one think that these "CD" jackets were made at depots other than at Columbus and I don't know if the idea of early made coats being shipped to state authorities without buttons is out of the question. Pre-War suppiles of state seal buttons were plentiful at first as well as captured US depots clothing supplies. Georgia and states with well-organized militias seem to be able to find state buttons for their uniforms. When Lawton takes over the Quartermaster dept is when many of the "I" buttons seem to show up. Good question. My original CD jacket could have been issued as early as the fall of 62 and it has plain-back Med size gen service eagle buttons on it that I think are original to the coat.

Joe Walker
Waco Guards

[Mississippian]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

I too think that the Columbus Depot Jackets were made in more than one place. After checking the OR's for somthing else, I found a report that stated that by early '63 most of the Confederate troops in Department of Mississippi and East Louisiana were being supplied by the three Confederate Depots in the state of Mississippi, the biggest one being in Jackson, which could produce 1,000 suits of clothing a week. Considering that almost half of the surviving CD jackets have ties to the Vicksburg Campaign, along with written accounts of large issues of likely CD-type jackets in North Mississippi in late '62. I think it likely that at least some "Columbus Depot" type jackets were actually made in Mississippi.

Will MacDonald
WIG

[roundshot]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

Bob, how can you identify those buttons as CAST block I's?

They can be readily seen in the original photo. My copy just happens to be poor. The size and lettering of the cast block "I" buttons is quite distinctive from most of the stamped patterns. I have seen in North/South Trader that many believe them to have originated in Tuscaloosa.

[Jimmayo]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

I have seen in North/South Trader that many believe them to have originated in Tuscaloosa.

That's funny. About 12 years ago there was a fella that had a display of CS cast brass at the Gettysburg show. I asked him about the source of the cast I buttons and he said he was pretty sure they came from Rome Ga. Too bad they didn't cast the name of the company on the back of the button.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

Thanks for the quick responses. I'm searching for the columbus Depot records...does anyone know where to find those?

I had always pictured federal eagle buttons and wooden/bone buttons as being used as replacements on depot jackets. It never occurred to me that the depots might of actually purchased those type buttons in bulk. Are the "cast" buttons made by large machine with a stamping process? It seems to me that if the depot possessed such machine it would still be existance or some evidence of it would at east be available.

Typically when casting, there is very little machinery involved. Casting is actually pretty simple only requiring a foundry (something to make the metal molten), a mold (many times sand, sometimes iron/steel, sometimes plaster or a variety of other materials not subject to the intense heat of the molten metal), and a method of transferring the molten metal from the foundry to the mold (vessel called a "crucible")...the process is pretty standard whether casting in brass (Yellow, White, Red), iron, steel...etc.

Machinery is involved in today's casting industry for transporting crucibles into and out of the foundry, producing molds (from pattern pieces), and finishing the work. In the 19th century (and before) very little if any machinery would have been used...(I know Tredegar used Hydro-powered machinery operating from the raceways coming off the canal, but have not figured out what this power was operating).

Machinery does however become involved when you start "Stamping", using dyes to press metal into the desired shapes.

Wikepedia actually has some decent information about casting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casting

Sorry to get side-tracked from the discussion of Columbus Depot Buttons...but I felt it necessary to discuss the method of production for these buttons.

Mr. Mayo,

Not having seen one of these buttons in person, I cannot comment as to their manufacture...I'm thinking though in all probability that these were probably "Sand-cast"...thoughts??

Paul B.

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

That's funny. About 12 years ago there was a fella that had a display of CS cast brass at the Gettysburg show. I asked him about the source of the cast I buttons and he said he was pretty sure they came from Rome Ga. Too bad they didn't cast the name of the company on the back of the button.

Ding.....and what noted CS foundary (bronze guns) was at Rome, Ga to further support it ? I had read this too...somewhere.

[roundshot]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

An interesting (?) variation on a theme is this photo of a Reb with what looks to be a hybrid between what we call a "Columbus" and a "Richmond" jacket: nine button front, shoulder straps /blue collar and straight cuff trim, and solid cast "I" buttons. Try to "type" that!

[Joe Walker]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

Old King Crow-

Noble Bros.

Joe Walker

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

Old King Crow-

Noble Bros.

Joe Walker

Yep. In addition to owning an amazing piece of CS history, this ole boy knows his stuff. I am envious.

[Jimmayo]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

Mr. Mayo,

Not having seen one of these buttons in person, I cannot comment as to their manufacture...I'm thinking though in all probability that these were probably "Sand-cast"...thoughts??

Paul B.

Looks like sand cast to me. Here is a picture of two from my web page. The fronts are slightly different as would be expected from different castings. The other is the back which I suspect the pour was made as part of the turret. Cast I buttons can be found on e-bay quite frequently. Both of these were found in Petersburg where they do show up occasionally.

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

The striking thing to me about the cast button is how heavy they are.

You noticeably feel them on the jacket, especially on a hanger.

What a perfect and plausible use for slag and other waste in a foundary...sand cast bronze buttons using an extant stamped "Block I" to strike the sand mold.

At least one "not so authentic" sutler is claming Noble Bros provenance to this buckle in pewter. I am looking to back that up.

[Joe Walker]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

I had some cast "T.Miller" buttons* (Houston made for the trans-Miss) made from slag that was found at a Confederate arsenal here in Texas. Hanover made them for me from an original cast T.Miller. They were somewhat dark, looked red in color, and played "Dixie" when you buttoned them. Seriously, I was told by Hanover that the slag really stank, and were hell to make. I don't think slag was used to make buttons if avoidable.

Joe Walker
Waco Guards

*they have a star on them with a "CS" in the center of the star

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

In reality slag being the byproduct of smelting (impurities) it was an incorrect term for what I meant....strike 2 for me in this thread.

More like the over pour or run off from the casting process which retains its entire bronze composition.

[Joe Walker]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

Old King Crow-

The pewter buckle you posted has been dug in Rebel camps, one like it in south central Tenn from the camp of the 9th Texas Infantry.

Joe Walker
Waco Guards

[lukegilly13]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

Looks like sand cast to me. Here is a picture of two from my web page...

Jim,
Any idea of who makes a darn close reproduction of this button? It could be beneficial for a person to take a good repro button and create a mold out of some sort of high heat tollerant ceramic/clay....if you had the means of melting brass one could make their own buttons.

If state buttons were abundant pre-war, would it be fitting for an AOT soldier to wear a CD jacket with TN state buttons on it? Also, would there be variance...In other words, are there surviving jackets with unmatching buttons (a mixture of I's, eagles, and wood)? I've read accounts of soldiers whittling their own buttons to replace a lost one.