Columbus Depot Buttons

[Ghostrider_58]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

Hanover Brass creates a first rate "red brass" cast I button and a couple of other types... I put a few on my CD jacket.

[c.irelan]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

Hello

I'm suprised that this has not already be posted to this thread.

http://authentic-campaigner.com/articles/walden/cdjacket.htm

[lukegilly13]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

That is a very good article! I looked at it before posting but I felt like it focused more on the state of the jackets when discovered....I was hoping to determine if there was a standard issue button from the CD to rule out soldier/individual replacement. And if this button does exist, is there a source where I can view those or get a description? Thanks for posting the article though... I have been unable to re-find it!

Luke

[c.irelan]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

Hello

I would go with one of two thoughts I have had since I'm planning to make a CD jacket here soon. Go with the most common button that appears in the break down of the jackets as listed in the article which at a quick peek would be anyone of the 3 (I) buttons listed, or you could go with the confederate copy of the eagle which is the prescribed general service button as in the federal army.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

[Jimmayo]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

or you could go with the confederate copy of the eagle which is the prescribed general service button as in the federal army.

Would like to know more about the Confederate copy of the eagle button.
Source of the information would be nice.

[27thNCdrummer]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

I'm not sure if someone posted this already or not but I'll go ahead and do it again.

This comes from the Missouri Boot & Shoe website on their page about their Confederate wooden buttons:

"While on an inspecting tour in Columbus, Ga. in the winter of 1862-63, I was informed that wooden, horn and bone buttons were being manufactured there, and I visited the plant. The factory was owned by a former lieutenant of the Confederate army, who had lost an arm in one of the early battles.

The motive power of his factory was an engine of moderate horsepower that had been used to run a printing press. So complete were the saws, borers, and drying kilns that in the
final process of their manufacture the completed buttons dropped into the hoppers with as much rapidity as nails from a nail making machine."

Dr. S.H. Stout, Medical Director of Hospitals in Confederate Veteran Magazine.

Hope this helps!

[lukegilly13]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

"While on an inspecting tour in Columbus, Ga. in the winter of 1862-63, I was informed that wooden, horn and bone buttons were being manufactured there, and I visited the plant....Hope this helps!

Thank you it does help a great deal! Seeing way too many wooden buttons on CD jackets and being the only person in the ranks with federal eagles on mine caused me to wonder what would of been on one "out of the box". I was doubtful that wooden buttons were being used by the depot. This would definatly give the Columbus depot access to them.
There's always the thought floating around that the South ran low on metal products throughout the war. Could wooden, bone, and horn buttons be the result of steel rationing? If so, would they be more appropriate late war?

[Jimmayo]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

Keep in mind that every pair of trousers had 4 or 6 waist buttons and the required fly buttons. There is little doubt that the 4 hole bone, metal or wood buttons were used for trousers. I have always suspected that these were the buttons that were spitting out of the button making machine but that is only conjecture on my part based partly on the following:

The South had a good supply of wood however military jacket buttons were "military" ( which means a lot of things such as functionally or pride in one's uniform) and an substantial effort was made to obtain the best buttons possible. For example, in very late war, the RD started to use block I buttons with stars in the border and on the I, in an effort to dress up the common block I. The change did not improve the function of the button so it must have been for the morale of the troops.

There is also no doubt that large numbers of cast I buttons were used for common infantry despite the scarcity of brass.

Why import large quantities of brass buttons from Europe if you have all the wooden ones you need at your disposal?

State buttons were a source of pride and were very popular when available.

In that time period being in the military ment having a chest full of shiney brass buttons to impress the ladies. Poor people used wood buttons and soldiers had to feel important. No self respecting young lady would ask a soldier for a wooden button from his coat.

IMO wood jacket buttons were a last resort. They were used but only when other metal buttons were not available but thats just my thought.

[c.irelan]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

Hello

Here is the quickest example that I can give you right now in the article they are listed as possible copys but what would be the likely hood that they were still sitting on a large store of Federal buttons by late 62 early 63.

https://www.geocities.com/capitalguards/LRfrock.html

I will see if I can find the rest of my stuff.

[Joe Walker]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

As stated in an earlier post, my original Columbus Depot jacket has these buttons on it. The buttons appear to have been sewn on when the coat was made. One other thing- the jacket is made of cassimere. According to the Eagle Mill in Columbus, their output of cassimere over jean was quite substantial. I also had a digger tell me he has found these plain backs in several CS camps.

Joe Walker
Waco Guards

[Jimmayo]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

You have to be careful calling 2 piece eagle buttons with no back mark CS. There were US issued eagle buttons with blank backs also. There were also tin back eagle buttons but they were not common. The only way I know how to tell the US eagle button from CS is which way the eagle is facing. Eagle looking to his right - US. Looking to his left - CS. These copies are two piece buttons.

The Confederacy (or someone) also made some copies of the US general service button, BUT they are cast and very poorly at that. Tice says that many were found in
early war Mississippi camps.

You can find most of the info above in Tice's button book.

I think whoever wrote the article on the frock coat referred to in the post above took a leap when he classified the eagle buttons as a possible CS copy (unless he had evidence they were some of the above). Since the coat was taken home by a Union soldier, he may have put eagle buttons it to wear or show at reunions. You just never know . Bottom line is that you can't be 100% sure that the buttons on a surviving jacket are the originals unless there is period documentation.

As for the Confederacy having supplies of eagle buttons in mid war, since they had them at war's start and end it is logical they had access to them at other periods of the conflict.

I have some words about the CS use of eagle buttons on the below page that may be of interest.

http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/csequip.html

That's enough preaching for a Sat night. I am going outside and inhale some swamp smoke.

[roundshot]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

Speaking of Tice, he also speculates that the Cast Block "I"s (CS1275) had a Tuscaloosa provenance but can "neither prove nor deny." (p.216)

[c.irelan]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

Hello All.

Now that I i'm back home I can add some more to this discussion althought I was not able to find exactly what I was looking for I fell that this is a good continuation to my origonal start.

As far as the article that I posted showing the Arkansas Frock I am under the impression that it was written by Walden someone please correct me if I am wrong. But the notion of altering a prize of war is a strech for me it would be like my uncle putting earrings in his prizes from Korea to make them pretty when he shows them off.

Going through the short servey of confederate buttons in EOG (which is no way complet) you will see that the the direction of the eagles head is up to the company that makes the button, there is a myth that the united states during times of war turns the head of the eagle from the olive branch the arrows this maybe where the confederate eagle faceing left comes from. Out of 13 buttons pictured reading as they would appear on the human body 10 have the eagle head to the right with 3 going to the left. If the confederate copy of the federal button was cast the most common for of mold at the time would of been sand which would of produced an exact copy of the face.

On page 113 you will find the coat of Capt. Cleaver you can tell that his buttons are of federal design in 1862

On page 130 and 131 you have the coats of Robert Bomar and John Johnston,
Bomar's is from 1861 and Johnstons is fron 1964 both with federal eagle design.

On page 135 Pvt. Greer's Jacket which was produced by the richmond depot from 1862 to 1864 show button of the federal eagle design.

on Page 137 Redwoods jacket richmond depot 3 with complet federal eagle designed buttons

and lastly Pvt Taylors jacket privately made in 1863 with federal eagle design.

The eagle was cosidered a general service button in the confederacy it is obvious and there are four listed as such on page 105.

as far as federal design here is the question if they are pickup off the ground and used by a man it would in no doubt be a replacement. But if it was captured or clamed and issued by a offical agent of the goverment (issued) then would it not matter what the back says? in my opinon they would in simple fact be confederate buttons. Would captured federal button supplies lasted from 1861 to 1864 nore then likely not with the like of a jacket being 30 to 60 days on active campaign so wouldn't one have to say that there had to be additional supplies being made in the southern nation?

[BrownBlanketMess]

Re: Columbus Depot Buttons

By examining these jackets in the MOC and as they are shown in A Catalogue of Uniforms In The Collection of The Museum of The Confederacy,

Captain William H. Cleavers frock has Federal Eagle I buttons with WM. H. Smith & Co./New York back marks.

Private George Greer's jacket has Federal Eagle enlisted buttons with backmark: Scovill MFG Co./WATERBURY.

Private Henry Redwood's jacket has Federal Eagle buttons with no backmarks.

Sergeant Thomas Taylor's jacket has Federal enlisted man's buttons with no backmarks.

Page 105 of Echoes of Glory has and states "Staff, General Officers', and General Service Buttons (Local)" Four buttons are of the Staff and General Officers variety and two are General Service buttons with the CSA and they are of the "Local" variety.

Steve LaBarre
Corn Fed Comrades

[Jimmayo]

The eagle was cosidered a general service button in the confederacy it is obvious and there are four listed as such on page 105.

I would not be 100% sure that any button on a surviving jacket is original. Too much time and reunions have passed since the war ended. Remember immediatly after the war, the US authorities made CS soldiers remove any button associated with the Confederate army from their clothing. I don't know if this applied to eagle buttons or not. It is something to consider. Period pictures provide the best evidence of uniform button use.

Would captured federal button supplies lasted from 1861 to 1864 nore then likely not with the like of a jacket being 30 to 60 days on active campaign so wouldn't one have to say that there had to be additional supplies being made in the southern nation?

Common CS manufactured buttons (such as the block I) exhibit some characteristics that are not found on the eagle buttons recovered from CS sites. The most noticable is poor crimps where the face of the button is attached to the back. Another is the variety of blends of brass, tin and copper used in button construction. Poor die stamping is another that shows up frenquently.
While eagle buttons may have slight differences in the face, they are pretty consistant in quality and materials and most have backmarks.

Based on the lack of documentation and the characteristics of surviving eagle buttons, I would say that it is unlikely the Confederacy manufactured eagle buttons other than the few locals mentioned in my previous post.

They did however import them. I used to have a copy of a document showing the number of eagle buttons received by the Richmond Depot in one single shipment sometime in 1863. I have looked for this document several times but it still escapes me. The buttons received were described as "brass with eagle" and the numbers were so astounding that they could not have all been CS staff.

Would it be a stretch to say that eagle buttons were being bought from contractors in the North and smuggled south? It would be easy to ship buttons from Boston to Bermuda and then back to the Southern ports. Anything to make a buck!

Evidence is around that button makers up north were supplying buttons to the Confederacy in 1861 and that backmarks were changed to hide the true manufactures of these buttons.

Lots of food for thought.