The "Self-Contained" Infantryman?

[LibertyHallVols]

Folks,

Here is a post from Hank Trent from another thread that I wanted to get folks' take on (edited a bit to focus on the topic for this thread):

Plan as if you were actually going to the real battle of [XXX Insert any battle here XXX]. Learn what you'd need to know in your role: bugle calls, drill, etc. If you're portraying an infantry private, take only what you can carry on your back, and only period reproductions, except discretely hidden modern medications. Take three days worth of period rations in your haversack and know how to cook them quickly in the field in a canteen half, tin cup or sheet-iron frying pan that you can carry with you. Take only half a shelter half (or some canvas equivalent) and a rubber blanket, and know how to set them up with a messmate to provide all the comfort you need.

Except for sharing a shelter half, be entirely self-contained, fit enough to march a dozen miles a day carrying everything you bring, and with the mindset that you're stepping back to 1863 to serve as a soldier and will do what they did, including marching long hours, standing picket, and so forth.

To what extent should an infantry private REALLY be "self-contained"?
After all, would he not have his mess-mates to help him out? I am considering things like sharing the burden of toting food and other items, such as cooking gear, or perhaps camp items. Also, what should a private carry with him, versus items that would be hauled by the army (additional rations, sometimes tentage, ammunition, etc.).

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with Hank's statement... it just got me thinking:

To what extent is an individual infantryman "self-contained" and/or to what extent was the burden shared among mess-mates in terms of the hauling of gear and food?

(Thanks, Hank, for moving my brain in a new direction!)

[Becky Morgan]

Re: The "Self-Contained" Infantryman?

It's an interesting question, and any understanding of it may have to be augmented by not only period diaries, but what soldiers in other wars have done and are doing.
In theory, a soldier has all of his issued gear on him when he's on the move. In practice, we all know that's not so. Period accounts of the debris fields behind armie moving out in spring are sufficient to prove that the boys of '61 discarded not only their relatively heavy camp luxuries, but also parts of their issued stuff. Naturally, reenactors are much less likely to strew the roadside with their extra shirts, socks and playing cards than the originals.

Reenactors are also, like it or not, living in 1008, with jobs and other responsibilities tying them to this place and time. If you're driving a few hundred miles, it's downright annoying to be short of rounds or not have the right shoes, so you can heave them in the van just in case. Back when, Alfred and Jacob didn't have a van in which to pack extras. (On the other hand, they weren't paying for gas, so it might not be that bad a trade-off .) The sensible solution to "Are we going to need that or not?" is to take one large item apiece and share it. If each man in a company carries one extra or heavy item--Harry's got the big hunk of soap and the extra canteen with the liquor in it, Alfred's carrying the spare gum blankets, Fred's got the good skillet and Martin's tied the big coffee boiler on--everything is available, but no one person has to carry a separate copy of it. We know this happened in World War II. For that matter, there was always an unofficial division of labor in platoons; the man stuck with lugging the BAR often didn't have to carry all of his own gear, and anyone too sick to go on with his full kit could count on a buddy helping with the load. Since most of the boys in the 1940s were citizen-soldiers just as those eighty years before, it's reasonable to think there wasn't much difference. I realize we can be led down the garden path by making too many modern assumptions, but human nature and practicality haven't changed that much.

[Hank Trent]

Re: The "Self-Contained" Infantryman?

Here is a post from Hank Trent from another thread that I wanted to get folks' take on (edited a bit to focus on the topic for this thread)

Good questions, and perhaps I should clarify that my advice was given in the context of a large mainstream reenactment, where one can't assume there will be either the support of the larger army to provide food, medicine, clothing, shelter, ammunition, etc., or even the cooperation of one's messmates, who might be off eating hamburgers at the vendors or leaving early with all their personal belongings.

In the period, though, one quote comes to mind:

Therefore any utensil like a frying-pan was
of incalculable service in preparing a meal. There were so few of
these in the regiment, that only men of large means, men who could
raise a dollar thirty days after a paymaster's visit, could afford such
a luxury. In one instance the difficulty was overcome by the formation
of a joint-stock company, composed of five stockholders,
each paying the sum of twenty cents toward the purchase of a
frying-pan, which cost the sum of one dollar. The par value of each
share was therefore twenty cents. It was understood that each
stockholder should take his turn at carrying the frying-pan when
on a march, which responsibility entitled him to its first use in
halting for the night. While in camp, it passed from one to the
other each day in order of turn. It was frequently loaned for a
consideration, thereby affording means for an occasional dividend
among the stockholders. The stock advanced in value until it
reached as high as forty cents per share, so that a stockholder in the "
Joint Stock Frying Pan Company" was looked upon as a man of
consequence. Being treated with kindness and civility by his comrades,
life assumed a roseate hue to the shareholders in this great
company, in spite of their deprivations. It was flattering to hear
one's self mentioned in terms of praise by some impecunious comrade
who wished to occupy one side of it while you were cooking.
On this particular morning, when we started out, expecting shortly
to be in a fight, the stock went rapidly down, until it could be bought
for almost nothing. As the day progressed, however, there was a
slight rise, though the market was not strong. When the order was
given to leave knapsacks, it necessarily included this utensil, and so
the "Joint Stock Frying Pan Company " was wiped out.

From Three Years in the Army: The Story of the Thirteenth Massachusetts Volunteers, by Charles E. Davis, 1894

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[lhsnj]

Re: The "Self-Contained" Infantryman?

Folks,

To what extent should an infantry private REALLY be "self-contained"?

John

When I look at that question, I think that the answer in its simplest form is: To the extent that he will be an effective fighting tool.

The main purpose of the soldier is not to march around but to fight. So in the simplest form, to be self contained, he should have his own weapon and accoutraments and ammunition.

Outside of that he can share with his mess-mates food, blankets, shelter.

I think of the image from Si Klegg where it shows Si going off to war looking more like a pack mule than a soldier. And the comparison of how he returned and in the image he has only a blanket, weapon and accoutraments.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: The "Self-Contained" Infantryman?

I can tell you from not just weekends of reenacting at authentic events, but from practical experience in Iraq, that as a soldier of any rank- if you bring it, be prepared to carry it. You could also throw-away/give away items if necessary, to units that come relieve you at your post to make their lives easier too.

It's a modern example but it works the same as back in the 1860s: As a Captain in the Army in 2006-2007... in Jan 06... I had my helmet, rifle, flak vest, assault pack, office computer, 6 duffel bags worth of gear (mandatory clothing, medicine, gas mask, etc... to bring per battalion/company regulations) and two large footlockers of office equipment/assorted goodies to make life easier -magazines, video games etc. It went into the battalion supply container and would meet us in Kuwait for transport to Tal Afar.

I was told by my command that most likely for the whole year I would be on a base (FOB) with an office for the entire time of my (then) 12-month deployment with a few convoys done here-and-there.

In reality, my deployment lasted 14-months, I moved locations about 6 times and I was attached to the Marines living in an Iraqi battle position/former latrine away from any other American forces other than my Marine 10-man team (and about 250+ Iraqi 'soldiers'- term used loosely).

I threw away or burned most items I originally came into country with except only basic necessities such as minimal clothing, survivability equipment, or things I knew were expensive and I had signed for etc. Magazines, video games, stuff sent from home other than food that I could immediately consume or carry, were the first things to go. Extra food was the second thing. Clothing was burned to prevent possible reuse by enemy forces.

I reduced everything down to two duffel bags, a computer case, my rifle, ammo and accoutrements. Even then, that was heavy, but as one gets rank, one must maintain a portable office and the things to maintain such.

Privates/lower enlisted were told by NCOs to ditch any stuff they had collected in 14-months of care packages, PX visits, found on base and mail-order if they couldn't move it. "Give it to your fellow soldier to make his life better in this hellhole..." was the quote before we left country.

Especially true in the 1860s and still true for the Army of today: portable/lighter/faster gear is better because you never know where you will make your home next.

You might have to leave that stuff somewhere too and run the risk of never seeing it again- don't get too attached.

As a soldier's maxim... if you can't carry it, it isn't keeping you alive, or think you don't need it, get rid of it.

-Johnny Lloyd

[OldKingCrow]

Re: The "Self-Contained" Infantryman?

Though I don't do the top level events on this forum, I do undertake a fair amount of period "CS-ish" minimalist campaign-style camping / hiking with my boy and dog (talk about no life !).

In doing enough of this I have found what works and what doesn't for me as far as what and how to carry things.

I am confident that I could survive (barely) with my material and method knowledge gained from these sessions. I also have room to incorporate and carry communal mess gear if I had messmates.

I guess it reinforces to me a solider squared away on his own brings far more to unit effectiveness than the inverse.

[Chad Wrinn]

Re: The "Self-Contained" Infantryman?

I would think that he would be mostly "Self-contained" ( if at all possible) because if his comrades were killed wounded or missing he would not have what ever his pard was carrying.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: The "Self-Contained" Infantryman?

Thanks for the replies, folks!

Hank gets the prize with the only period reference... and it is exactly the kind of thing I was curious about:
Communal use of gear and mess items... 1 frying pan for 5 guys and each takes turns carrying it.

I'll be digging for some more examples tonight and in the weeks to come, however...

I wonder about things like:
- Is it really necessary for EVERY individual infantry man to carry a blanket AND gum blanket? In the summer, Every man probably should NOT have a blanket. In colder months, a 5# blanket and a 7-8# overcoat for EVERY man may have been an unnecessary burden. I'm curious if there is evidence of communal use of these items.

- Were over coats shared on the march? ... on outpost/picket duty?

- Other items like hatchets and shovels would have been very useful and I would guess were probably shared widely.

Yes, each man must be able to fight independently. However, these guys were no "weekend warrior hobbyists", they stood as pickets and marched hundreds upon hundreds of miles in all kinds of weather. While each man had to be equipped to fight on his own, did they not help each other by making life more bearable, sharing the hardships, etc.?

I've been to some cold weather events and seen guys marching out on Sunday looking like pack mules and thought, "somethin' ain't right here". I'm wondering if this is it.

How 'bout some more period references?

[Charles Heath]

Re: The "Self-Contained" Infantryman?

"... other than food that I could immediately consume or carry, were the first things to go. Extra food was the second thing."

Johnny,

To backdate this to 1862, Sgt. Buck, 13th Virginia Infantry, would definitely agree with you:

(Excerpted from pages 20-21 of David F. Riggs’ 13th Virginia Infantry from H.E. Howard Publishing of Lynchburg)

"...Walker’s men moved to Mount Pisgah Church, near Orange Court House, on the 16th. They remained there until the 20th when ordered to cross the Rapidan at Cunningham’s Ford en route to Stevensburg. Sgt. Samuel D. Buck noticed most men now had a routine for these marching orders which required everyone to prepare five days’ rations, then sling a knapsack, blankeet, oil cloth, five pounds of ammunition, and a twelve-pound musket. Usually everyone “ate the entire bill of fare in two or three days and starved the rest of the time,” so it was little wonder that Jackson’s “foot cavalry” exhausted itself on these marches.

This type of "eat it now and haul the rations in the gullet" type quote is common; however, this one just happened to be at hand while assembling an article for the newsletter in preparation for the Crittenden's Farm event (Death March X) in August. The obligatory Orange Court House remark is left in for Petey, as everyone knows you can't go anywhere without going through Orange.

This topic hasn't been beaten to death in the past few months, so maybe it is time for recycling.

Wick asks, "To what extent should an infantry private REALLY be "self-contained"?

To what extent is an individual infantryman "self-contained" and/or to what extent was the burden shared among mess-mates in terms of the hauling of gear and food?"

When I was coming along in the modern army, we kept hearing the number 12, as in it took 12 "other" people to support one 11B in the field. I do believe the number for the CW was 8, but I couldn't find that documentation within a few weeks of looking through the bountiful pile management system here in The Bunker, so let's just say it took a few folks at the brigade, division, corps, army, and depot levels to keep Johnny and Billy in the field at the regimental level.

What are the implications for reenactors?

Transportation is still a bugaboo. The good news is we are realistic in this, because finding wagons, ships, (and railroad rolling stock) was task unto itself. Wilson, in "How To Feed A Great Army" (United States Service Magazine, 1880) writes about finding transportation for rations on the hoof:

"Together with the immense herd of beef cattle kept at Brandy Station for the current needs of the army, I found that, to carry out my orders of supply, it would be necessary to have sent up to the front from Alexandria, some 50 miles distant, about 6,000 head of beef cattle, with the forage, corn in the ear, and hay necessary to subsist them until the march began, and this feat had to be accomplished between one Friday morning and the following Tuesday night; or, in other words, to arrive in time and for the purpose needed, an average of 1,200 head of beef cattle had to be sent me daily for five days, with the necessary forage for their maintenance. The existing capacity of the Orange and Alexandria Railroad in cattle cars was, at this time, for about only 300 head daily. I telegraphed to Alexandria to know whether the number of cattle required could be sent up. The reply was that "they must be sent up."

For many campaign events in the realm of reenacting, the transportation is either not necessary, or the items are pre-positioned along the route of march in the form of clever staging. This comes in many forms.

IMHO, period transportation is one of those challenges that renews itself at each event, and the ballpark for fielding is roughly $50,000 per unit in season 2003 dollars. See four wagons? That's $200,000 sitting there. Somewhere, there's an article explaining how this works in terms of actual cost, replacement cost, motive power, cartage, and all sorts of oogly moogly, so when you do so wagons at events, be appreciative.

Again, from Wilson, we probably won't be reenacting this scene from the start of the Overland Campaign anytime soon:

"Some idea of the length of the wagon train may be formed when it is known that, after containing the subsistence stores above mentioned, the ammunition, the necessary forage for the animals, and clothing required to replace that worn out during the march, this train, had it been placed in a right line, when the first wagon was entering the city of Richmond the last one would have been just leaving the city of Washington— a distance of almost 130 miles by rail. "

Every once in a while, I'll write a newsletter article about how equipment fared during an event. The minimalist approach is pretty fun at times, but you do want items that are not immediately available. Needless to say, events measured in square miles or a 100 miles or more in length represent a different level of challenge than those of a few acres or a few football fields in length.

After all, would he not have his mess-mates to help him out? I am considering things like sharing the burden of toting food and other items, such as cooking gear, or perhaps camp items. Also, what should a private carry with him, versus items that would be hauled by the army (additional rations, sometimes tentage, ammunition, etc.). "

What did they do? Shared the burden. What happens when one or more of the mess was KIA, MIA, WIA, or just straggled for a while? Loss was felt.

Account after account mentions divvying up the mess furniture amongst a few men (four seems to be common, and for good reason), so a hatchet, sturdy knife, skillet, coffee pot, boiler, extra rations, or what not could find a home. There is a tale of two fellows who tried to haul an iron stove on a march, but that is an extreme. For them, they were with each other every day (duh). For us, it takes a little more coordination, and then there is the trouble with the fellow with the all important item(s) having to bail the night before or day of the event due to his kittens having puppies, etc. Loss is felt.

Kevin O'Beirne's oft quoted "Knapsack and Haversack Packing 101"article is worth pulling a few blurbs from once again. I'm trying to recall if it was in the newsletter and/or the first compendium, but it did appear in the Watchdog back in late '90s, and the full article was included in the AC Website articles section at one point (may still be):

"Considering the fact that three days’ [rations] has heretofore been the maximum amount [carried], the board recommends as follows: 1. That all extra clothing, except a change of underclothing, be stored. 2. That five days’ rations of bread and small-stores be placed in the knapsack. 3. Three days’ cooked rations in the haversack, and five days' fresh beef upon the hoof. 4. Two mules per regiment to carry camp-kettles, rice, beans, &c. Each soldier will carry Haversack 5¾ lbs., Knapsack 6 lbs., Blanket 5¼ lbs., Clothing 2 lbs., Total, 19 lbs. Making 13¼ pounds in the knapsacks, being 2¼ pounds less than the weight usually carried by soldiers in this army in their knapsacks." Report of Board of Officers Convened per Army of the Potomac General Orders No. 65, March 7, 1863 (prior to the Chancellorsville Campaign)

"The troops carried through the campaign only those things most necessary for their constant use. A blanket should have been taken, but no overcoat. Both weigh a man down too heavily, and are not necessary in moderate weather." Brigadier General Rufus Ingalls, Chief Quartermaster, Army of the Potomac, May 29, 1863

Below is a packing checklist that the author uses in preparation for living history events. Your "essentials" may vary.

Knapsack:

Blanket:
One good 5 lb., 100 percent wool blanket is all any reenactor needs, even in cold weather.

Gum Blanket:
Essential for use as a ground cloth, raincoat, or shelter.

Shelter Half:
A shelter half is essential for protection from the elements. Individual soldiers should not carry full tents (i.e. two shelter halves) and evidence that triangular end-pieces for dog tents were ever available to the average Billy Yank is exceedingly scant.

Journal Book and Pencils:
A non-essential personal item which comes in handy for a soldier on campaign to record his thoughts, write letters home, use as a fire-starter, or to use as "paper" in "an emergency".

Extra Pair of Wool Socks:
Perhaps the real soldiers did not always have extra socks, but it is recommended that all reenactors carry a second pair for warmth at night and for health-purposes. Further, one extra pair of socks is a small, light addition to your pack.

Extra Drawers:
A non-essential item that was not available to most soldiers on campaign.

Extra Shirt: Completely non-essential in the warmer months, an extra shirt is a necessity for colder-weather reenacting.

Vest: Non-essential, and used mainly for colder-weather reenacting. The idea that every soldier in the field had a vest is a "reenactor myth", so take your choice on whether you want to carry one.

Greatcoat:
Leave the greatcoat home in warm weather (soldiers placed them in storage until the autumn). However, a Federal-issue overcoat for reenacting in the colder months is one of the most useful items in the living historian’s kit. It serves as both a coat and a blanket, and at night the cape can be used to completely cover your face and head for warmth.

Small Towel:
Not of the modern-day terrycloth variety, a period-correct towel, such as "Huckabuck" towels sold at Wal-Mart (unbleached, off-white, plain cotton towels usually sold in a pack of five for $5.00, in the dishtowel department), or the excellent NPS reproductions, is useful in washing up your person and/or your gear. Carry a bar of lye soap (or, better yet, part of one) with the towel.

Extra Ammunition:
Pack ammunition correctly in paper packages of ten rounds plus one paper tube with twelve percussion caps. This approach is authentic and takes up the least space in your knapsack.

Roll of Twine (String):
About 20-30 feet of twine or hemp is the campaigner’s essential companion for rigging up shelter. Make sure the twine has no modern fibers.

Extra Food:
Food for a two- or three-day reenactment should fit in the haversack but, in the event you pack heavy, or are bringing more than three days of food, put the extra into the knapsack.

Hygiene Items:
The writer carries a muslin poke bag with a wooden toothbrush, comb, and two small glass vials with corks (one vial contains baking soda for tooth powder, and the other is for sunscreen).

"Haversack Stuffers":
Minimize your haversack stuffers and, to increase room in the haversack (which is primarily for rations), place your "stuffers" into the knapsack. Authentic "stuffers" a soldier might well have carried include a tintype of his family, razor, religious items (rosary, scapulas, etc.), sewing kit, a few pieces of dry kindling, pipe and tobacco, and other personal items. Evaluate all your stuffers and determine if they are "essential" for a soldier on campaign.

Haversack:
Rations: Limiting campaign-rations primarily to salt pork, hardtack, and coffee not only makes one more authentic, but these items take up less room and weigh less than the rations consumed by most reenactors. Forget about canned food!

Tin Plate:
A good tin plate is essential as a serving dish, frying pan and, if necessary, digging implement (for fire pits or fortifications). Assuming it fits inside, a plate adds rigidity to your haversack. A canteen half will serve the same purpose as a plate.

Eating Utensils:
A knife, fork, and spoon are essential, and living historians may want to consider wrapping them in a rag or in a small canvas sack. Also, a pocketknife in your pants pocket or haversack is essential.

Tin Can:
A period-correct tin can with a wire bail attached is excellent for use as a coffee cooler and as supplemental mess gear. The writer also carries a very small tin container from Jarnagin that is used for gun oil but, as a more authentic alternative, lubricate your weapon with pork fat (note, it will not rust the metal).

Candle:
One beeswax candle is essential. A candleholder is not required but, if you do opt for one, make it as small as possible and carry it in the knapsack. As a less-bulky, more authentic alternative, an upside-down mess cup makes an excellent candleholder.

Matches and Matchsafe:
It is a good idea for each reenactor to carry one box of matches in a matchsafe (i.e. a small box that protects the box of matches from being crushed). Matches can also be carried in a jacket pocket. Reproduction matchsafes are generally not very correct but, with some careful shopping at an antique store or relic vendor, one can find a fairly inexpensive period matchsafe.

Rags:
Carry one or two period-correct rags (not the modern blue or red bandannas sold by the "sutlers"). These will come in handy as potholders, clean-up wipes, &c.

During the preparation of this article, the writer packed his knapsack and haversack as recommended above and then weighed each. The haversack contained two days’ rations of salt pork, hardtack, and coffee (total weight of rations per Army regulations: 3.7 lb.), along with a few haversack "stuffers" and mess gear, including a tin dipper attached to the outside of the haversack. The total weight of the haversack was 5.7 lb. The knapsack was packed with a blanket, gum blanket, authentic shelter half, greatcoat, towel, socks, extra drawers, 40 blank cartridges, journal book and pencils, and a few miscellaneous "stuffers". The weight of the full knapsack was 17.5 lbs.; when the greatcoat was removed, the weight of the knapsack was 14.0 lb.

How does the recommended reenactor’s packing list stack up against the Army of the Potomac’s marching load at the beginning of the Chancellorsville campaign? Answer: fairly well. The reproduction items weighed included only two days’ rations, plus a gum blanket and the weight of the haversack and knapsack proper. The Board of Officers’ recommendations included three days’ full rations in the haversack; in the knapsack were five days’ rations of hardtack, 2 lbs. of clothing (roughly equivalent to a pair of socks and a shelter half), and a blanket. Note that the Board of Officers’ recommended load does not include the weight of the a gum blanket, which was carried by all soldiers of the Army of the Potomac during the Chancellorsville campaign, or the weight of the haversack and knapsack themselves. [For copious quartermasters’ reports on how the Board of Officers’ recommendations fared on campaign, see the War of the Rebellion: Official Records of the Union and Confederate Armies, Volume 25, Part 2 , pages 544-559.] The Board’s recommended load includes about 7.9 lbs. of food not in the reenactor’s haversack and knapsack, while the weight of the reenactor’s gum blanket, haversack, and knapsack totaled about 7.5 lbs. The reenactor’s journal book, 40 blank cartridges, and other nick-knacks more than account for the difference of 0.4 lbs. Therefore, it can be concluded that the packing list recommended in this article is fairly authentic. Further, the writer asserts, based on personal experience, that it is sufficient for protection from the elements and includes enough food for a two-day reenactment. "

The real question is whether to prepare for the typical 36-48 hour field trip, or for a bottomless campaign.

Going back to Wilson's article, we see the army departing Brandy Station in the early days of May 1864 were issued the following:

"The soldiers were required to carry in their knapsacks three days' rations, and also in their haversacks three days' rations of hard bread, coffee, sugar, and salt; issues of these articles from the supply trains to be made to the men every two or three days, when practicable, so that at no time would a soldier have on his person less than from three to five days' rations of them. The supply trains were required to carry ten days' rations of the same articles, and one day's rations of salt pork. It was also ordered that the remainder of the meat ration should be provided in beef cattle on the hoof, to be driven along with the troops, but not to occupy any roads used by the latter and thus interfere with the march of the soldiers, and that an aggregate supply of beef cattle on the hoof for thirteen days' rations be so driven."

Probably not much help, but some fat to chew.

[Duff]

Re: The "Self-Contained" Infantryman?

What I have gotten from this thread is that it is "self contained mess" rather than "self contained man." Any thoughts on this?


I also think it comes down to the time period once again. If it is early war or the portrayal of new recruits, I would assume there would be more "kewl stuff" and every man would have his own gear. If the portrayal is sherman's bummers or other veteran, late war troops you would probably see more sharing of gear, and much less gear in general.

(Yes, there are exeptions to that rule.)

[lukegilly13]

Re: The "Self-Contained" Infantryman?

I've been to some cold weather events and seen guys marching out on Sunday looking like pack mules and thought, "somethin' ain't right here".

This is a great point...and no, probably it is not right! Here's why....they did this daily. We come out of our nice heated beds with electric blankets into a car that we probably let run and warm up for 10 minutes before setting down in it, wearing all the clothes we can still move in...to go to work where we have the electric heat set on 72. These guys camped when it was 90, then 70, then 50, then 30, and below....but they got used to it!!!! Survive the 10 degree nights, and 30 will feel like a heat wave. When it gets cold gradually (because you were there the whole time) it is more bearable. Of course there were the crazy nights where cold fronts came out of nowhere...those are what we read about. The others snuck up on them and was somewhat on them and gone before they knew it....In this sense, it is more difficult for us to endure climates because of the abrupt and random change and making "self contained" seem almost impossible.
Just a thought!

I can't get to the book to get the exact reference but in the book called "Grumble" about "Grumble" Jones and his cavalry, they talk about a soldier actually freezing to death in the saddle somewhere in transition. When they reached their location, the soldiers had to break him off of the saddle!!! This guy maybe should have depended more on his mates.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: The "Self-Contained" Infantryman?

What I have gotten from this thread is that it is "self contained mess" rather than "self contained man." Any thoughts on this?

I hate to agree with a self-professed scumbag, but...
That is the opinion that I am forming. :wink_smil

[LeftCoastYank]

Re: The "Self-Contained" Infantryman?

Kudos to Mr. Wickett - this is a FANTASTIC thread!

I think the "self contained mess" as opposed the "self contained man" holds a lot of weight - particularly with cooking implements, where communal use would be a no brainer. It just makes sense to me.

A mess was after all, a groups of like minded pards who banded together to share chores/duties and look after one another in order to make army life easier. Sharing a frying tin, stew bucket, etc, is just logical if meals are being prepared communally.

Furthermore, if the CO ordered "drop packs" everybody would be in the same boat, shared stuff or not.

Likewise, it also seems to me that if a member of the mess were to become a casualty, the other fellows would be far more concerned about the fate of their friend then that of a cup.

Dave Schwartz

[John E. Tobey]

Re: The "Self-Contained" Infantryman?

Howdy All,

I think it's difficult to make generalizations regarding campaign kits for the war as a whole -- the lists of what soldiers and groups of soldiers carried were dynamic, changing as time went on. In fact, a whole book could be written on the subject. In any case, here's a few things worth considering.

When troops were new to campaigning, there were more items deemed "indispensible" to them (pots, kettles, frying pans, etc). In order to tote them, they were forced to "pard up" and share the load.

As time went on, the list of "indispensibles" appeared to shrink -- however, this didn't cause the end of shared items. Instead, some of them started sharing vital pieces of camp gear to lighten their individual loads. Here's some examples:

Three men left us nice lists of what they carried during the Gettysburg Campaign. Ben Hirst of the 14th CT was a veteran campaigner and was self-sufficient, carrying only what he would use ("The Boys from Rockville," 138). George Fowle of the 39th MA recalled something that, in his words, "all of the old soldiers do in hot weather." ("Letters to Eliza," 32-33) According to George, one "old soldier" would carry both pieces of the shelter tent while the other man carried a wool blanket. I have seen references to this arrangement elsewhere, and have the suspicion that it was probably, as George tells us, fairly common amongst veteran troops in hot weather. Besides sharing weight, it also elminated the tedious procedure of buttoning the shelter halves together before pitching the tent.

Richard Van Wyck of the 150th NY ("A War to Petrify the Heart," 108,176)was on his first campaign (but not his first march). It appears that he and his pard carried a frying pan and kettle between them. James Hosmer of the 52nd MA ("The Color Guard" 112) described how he and his mess-mates shared a coffee-pot, frying pan, and kettle, but again -- it was relatively early in their careers. Andrew Chesnut of the 126th NY mentions sharing the load of a frying pan, hatchet, and kettle with two other men during their first long march (Gettysburg), but by the end of the summer both of his messmates were dead, the utensils gone, and he was sharing a rubber blanket and single shelter half with another man.

The above examples make sense to me, and when combined with similar anecdotes leave the impression that soldiers became, in many ways at least, more practical and probably more self-sufficient as time went on. There's always room for surprises, however -- Sgt. Bowen of the 12th US couldn't do without his louse powder and Henry Lott had to carry his slippers. Andrew Spencer and his tentmate took turns carrying a miner's pick on their way to Atlanta.

John Tobey

[tpallas]

Re: The "Self-Contained" Infantryman?

6 duffel bags worth of gear

Seriously?!?!?!


When we say "self-containing," do we mean self-sustaining??