enfield ramrods

[Jake Nott]

Mods if this is in the wrong file please move. Thank you

Okay, I know this has been debated in the past about an Enfield ramrod being blued. If you look at this 62 tower, to my untrained eye it looks like it is blued about 2 inches from the head to the pipes? http://www.sharpsburg-arsenal.com/Ri...enfield__.html
what do you all think?

[Jimmayo]

Re: enfield ramrods

Yes, I noticed that also. It is really hard to tell from the photo but it doesn't look like period bluing. It may just be shine. It also doesn't have the wear marks in the right place from being in that gun.

I went to the SA page and looked at the Enfield's description. The ramrod is described as having the initials of T&CC stamped on it. I think this may be a typo and the initials should be T&CG (Thomas and Charles Gilbert if my memory is correct) who were a Birmingham maker of small parts including ramrods. This means it is period and a desireable feature with any Enfield. However this ramrod may still have originated in Afganastan. It may also be what makes the gun (IMO) over priced. It is unusual that the picture of the gun showing the ramrod would not try and show this marking. Lodgewood had a ramrod with these initials at the NSSA skirmish and wanted $300 for it. I also thought that was over priced. Guess I am just a cheapskate.

IMO the ramrod is not original to the gun but it is original. It is not unusual to put a ramrod in a gun to make it more sellable.

There seems to be a lot of part swapping going on lately because of the supply of Afgan Enfield parts. I have even seen P-53 Enfields with the type III snider ramrods installed which taper down about 6 inches from the tulip into a much thinner ramrod than a P53 rod. Unless you bought an Enfield with one of these ramrods (like I did) you probably would not notice the difference.

If Tim Prince sees this post he will probably be able to make some good comments and tell who the barrel maker was.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: enfield ramrods

I'm pretty sure I've seen that Enfield as it has been in their shop for a while. I think a blued rammer would have caught my attention. Given the amount of wear to the rest of the finish, there's really no way to tell from the picture.

[10TnVI]

Re: enfield ramrods

Not seen this before-what is the stamp on the barrel below the rear sight?

[Enfilade]

Re: enfield ramrods

"IMO the ramrod is not original to the gun. - Jim Mayo"

I agree with Jim Mayo. I have seen jackets with buttons added later. This could actually be a repro ramrod.


Mark Berrier
North State Rifles

http://www.northstatrifles.com

[ACo.]

Re: enfield ramrods

Looks fine to me. Now it is hard to tell without having it in hand but it looks like an original, patinated rod - in other words, it is not blued it is lightly and smoothly rusted like the rest of the gun. Over the years, the ramrod has been pulled out many times and the head of the rod has not turned brown like the less handled parts of the rod - very common appearance.

[Matthew Semple]

Re: enfield ramrods

So, I thought I would throw this out there for consideration:

Is the attached picture of an original or of a reproduction?
Is it blued or does it have 15+ years of patina on it?

[Matthew Semple]

Re: enfield ramrods

Here is another for those who need another picture.

[Jimmayo]

Re: enfield ramrods

Come on Matt, you gotta put more light on it. I can barely see the seam where the tulip is soldered on. :D

[JustRob]

Re: enfield ramrods

Matt,

Rather than turn this into a game of twenty questions, why don't you let us in on the info you're turning up.

Alternatively, one could go back to the primary source and review the British Ordnance Department specs for the Enfield.

Now there's a concept!

[Prodical Reb]

Re: enfield ramrods

Looks fine to me. Now it is hard to tell without having it in hand but it looks like an original, patinated rod - in other words, it is not blued it is lightly and smoothly rusted like the rest of the gun. Over the years, the ramrod has been pulled out many times and the head of the rod has not turned brown like the less handled parts of the rod - very common appearance.

I would agree with ACo's accessment. pretty hard to tell with out having it in hand. The pictures provided are pretty bad to tell any detail of the ramrod! But the edges of the tulip are rounded off from wear and not sharp like it was just made. So at least it appears old and worn, hard to fake that.

Come on Matt, you gotta put more light on it. I can barely see the seam where the tulip is soldered on. :D

Matt, there is definitely a seam there which means 2 piece ramrod. Whitworth's had a 2 piece with a brass tulip and steel rod on them if I'm not mistaken but regular old run of the mill Enfields were 1 piece, not blued. Both sides of the "to blue or not blue even agree that ramrods were not blued. But I'll play your game! I have a very technical way of telling if it is blued or patina.............the magic 8 ball says "Reply hazy, try again " and so is the pic guess I'll ask again tomorrow.:(

Not seen this before-what is the stamp on the barrel below the rear sight?

Mr Obvious just told me it looks like the initials PGI or PGT can't tell because whoever stamped it only got the stamp cocked off; looks like in was a stamp and not individual letter stamps used to make the letters as they are to straight and aligned! No clue what it stands for but I'd bet post war.

[Matthew Semple]

Re: enfield ramrods

Rather than turn this into a game of twenty questions, why don't you let us in on the info you're turning up.

Robert,

I was not planning on turning my post into twenty questions and see how it was easily viewed as such. My wording could have been much better in my post.

All,

I got distracted last night and did not get the chance to type this in until this afternoon. Here is why I posted the pictures of the reproduction ramrod:

Sometimes light patina achieved over the years with routine oiling can look like old original bluing in pictures or even with the naked eye from a distance. The reason I posted the pictures of the reproduction ramrod is because it shows just that (15+ years of patina and oiling that looks like old original bluing). I also have several original ramrods in my collection that appear to have bluing on them but actually have a patina that looks like original bluing.

Sometimes you need detailed close up pictures to tell older reproductions from originals. You can tell that mine is a reproduction in my detailed pictures thanks to the seam. (As always, Mr. Mayo was quick to correctly identify it as such.) If I had posted a picture of the reproduction ramrod taken from a distance, I am sure that it would not have been so quickly and easily identifiable as a reproduction. The reproduction looks just like an original I have in the collection when both sit side by side and are viewed from several feet away. It is hard to tell which one is the original without going up to them and looking for the seam.

I will see what I can do about getting a comparison picture of the two side by side posted. Unfortunately I am in the process of moving and all I have here at the moment are my reproductions.