Where to Shellac an 1858 Dress Hat?

[Matthew Semple]

I have used the search function many times over the past week with various entries but have not come up with an answer to the following question and cannot find the answer in articles that examined extant surviving specimens.

For the M1858 Dress Hats (Hardee Hats) that had shellac applied while being made for contracts, was the shellac applied to all parts of the hat with the brim folded down or one side folded up (as per regulations) and allowed to dry?

I have examined three original Hardee Hats and none of them appeared to have ever had shellac applied to them. These hats were in a condition off almost completely deteriorated to pristine with brass (I assumed that that one was surplus since no name was attached).

Any help from those who have examined hats with shellac applied is greatly appreciated.

[JustRob]

Re: Where to Shellac an 1858 Dress Hat?

Several years ago, an A/C forum member attempted to shellac his hat using a period recipe.

As I recall, the AAR began with the words, "Someone owes me a new hat."

[Hank Trent]

Re: Where to Shellac an 1858 Dress Hat?

I recently got some Zinsser natural shellac in a spray can, which is supposedly just natural shellac in alcohol, to shellac a straw hat, and needless to say I couldn't resist trying it on my felt hat as well. When applied in a small amount, it stiffened and waterproofed the hat slightly, but really wasn't visible. If I didn't know it was on there, I couldn't really tell.

Don't know if that means I didn't apply enough, or it wasn't the right stuff, or if in fact it's not supposed to be all that obvious when it is applied.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[threepdr]

Re: Where to Shellac an 1858 Dress Hat?

I've shellacked hats successfully with 1 part natural shellac to 4 parts alchohol.

Later I learned a trick from my Drill Sergeants when I was a company commander in the Army. They still "shellacked" hats but they did it with unsented hairspray. Different formula but same result. They would liberally spray thier brown Drill Sgt's hats with cheap hair spray, put them in a wooden form and BAKE THEM IN THE OVEN! They baked them at low temps, about 200 or 250 degrees or so. Their hats were alway crisp and stiff with no sign of anything having been applied to them.

I used the hair spray trick for several years after that to keep my Hardee in good order. A good rain storm will wash both shellac and hair spray out very quickly.

[Matthew Semple]

Re: Where to Shellac an 1858 Dress Hat?

Thanks to those who have responded.

Let me just say that I have shellacked hats before with period recipees and am NOT looking how to shellac or what recipees to use. I am reposting my question from the original post:

For the M1858 Dress Hats (Hardee Hats) that had shellac applied while being made for contracts, was the shellac applied to all parts of the hat with the brim folded down or one side folded up (as per regulations) and allowed to dry?

I will reword it for sake of clarity: For original contract Hardee Hats was the brim folded up before shellac was applied or were they shellacked with the brim down?

[threepdr]

Re: Where to Shellac an 1858 Dress Hat?

Matthew,

I don't believe the soldiers did the shellacking. That was done at the hattery. They were issued bare of insignia, so the answer would be they were shellacked with the brim down long before (if ever) the brass eagle that holds the brim up was attached.

[Matthew Semple]

Re: Where to Shellac an 1858 Dress Hat?

Mark,

Thanks for the input.

The hattery definitely did the shellacking. Soldiers did not.

Whenever I have used a period recipe to shellac a wool felt or fur felt hat it became so stiff that bending the brim was nearly impossible. In fact, on my first attempt several years ago I nearly ruined a hat brim because it cracked when I went to bend it up after allowing just one coating to dry with the brim down.

My question comes out of that accident. If the hat is so stiff after being shellacked, does that mean that the hattery bends it up before shellacking or do they not shellac the brim at all so that it can be bent up by the soldiers later on?

[Rear Guard]

Re: Where to Shellac an 1858 Dress Hat?

Probably in the garage would be best. Definitely not on the living room rug.

[Matthew Semple]

Re: Where to Shellac an 1858 Dress Hat?

Probably in the garage would be best. Definitely not on the living room rug.

Funny...My living room rug has had a lot worse things done on it.


So this thread does not get off of topic (again) and transferred to The Sinks, the "where" in the thread title is in reference to shellacking the brim or not...as previously asked in this authenticity discussion.

[AZReenactor]

Re: Where to Shellac an 1858 Dress Hat?

Mu suspicion is that they were probably not finished with the brim pre-folded. My basis for this is that the correspondence requesting army hats for the 1st California Cavalry and Infantry from Benicia Arsenal in 1861 does not seem to differentiate between hats for footman or horseman despite the fact that regulations I believe called for them to be folded up on opposite sides.

But that is merely my set of suppositions, others mileage may vary.

[CompanyWag]

Re: Where to Shellac an 1858 Dress Hat?

FWIW,

None of the original hats I examined for the article I wrote years ago for the CompanyWag showed the evidence of shellac. I had assumed at the time that the shellac was applied as a simple sizing and most traces of it would have disappeared as it was absorbed into the material...not to render the felt into something as stiff and unpliable as old leather.

All evidence I have seen indicates that hats were issued with flat brims without any trimming other than the ribbon. As noted earlier, there was no difference in quartermaster lists between mounted hats and those of footmen...even though the brim was folded on different sides at various times. Also, hats and insignia were different items of issue & if insignia was drawn, it was up to the soldier (or unit) to apply insignia...thus accounting for the wide variation in insignia placement. IMO, the hat blanks offered on sutler's row with the sides looped up are a modern notion.

As an interesting side note, (and indicating a consistent thought pattern in the military) the army continued to issue hats completely plain and unshaped well into the WW1 period. I've seen a motion picture clip of doughboys being issued campaign hats...and the hats were "open crowned" with no pinch! The "Montana Peak" was applied after issue.

Paul McKee

[rogue]

Re: Where to Shellac an 1858 Dress Hat?

Paul,
If you recall the hats Don Rademacher produced, he did use shellac on them, but after a brisk Wisconsin rain the treatment went south, leaving no remains visable to the eye.
Steve Sullivan

[CompanyWag]

Re: Where to Shellac an 1858 Dress Hat?

Greetings Steve!

Yes I do remember the Rademacher hats...as well as his very fine forage caps. He was definitely a rare craftsman. Is he still around?

Paul McKee

[rogue]

Re: Where to Shellac an 1858 Dress Hat?

Paul,
Around, but dropped out of the warwa. I still have one of his Artifake caps, out aging on the woodpile!
Works in a factory producing custom air conditioner filters to be used in huge industrial sites.
When he gets into reenacting it is as a WWII Russian, and that is seldom.
How the mighty have fallen!
Cheers,
Steve Sullivan

[BattF 1]

Re: Where to Shellac an 1858 Dress Hat?

Matthew,

"The inflexible material of the hat made it break where the side was turned up. ... Sometimes the soldier creased a pleat in the top, ... This broke it in two, and let in the rain." Extracted from " The Drums of the 47th" pg 14, by Robert J Burdette.

Sounds like what you've experienced.

Jim Borland