4th Michigan (canada hat )

[zouavecampaigner]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

Dave and others,

do you have any first-hand accounts of the uniforms of the 4th Michigan? Did anyone ever give descriptions of the colours of the caps and tassels at all?

Regards,
Shaun

[Beaner]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

Picture update.

I've posted a 6th plate color photo on the Wolcott event site. I haven't been able to format the others. Once they are formatted I will post the link.
Dave Prince

[Jeremy Bevard]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

Here is the link. The pic is about a third of the way down.


http://www.fourthtexas.com/federal_orders.htm

[4th Michigan Historian]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

Shaun and others,
For ten years I have been collecting original period items of the Fourth Michigan Infantry and have been avidly researching the regimant as well. But after all that time I have yet to see the Canadian hat mentioned specifically in any source at all, either from the items in my personal collection or elsewhere. I have over one hundred original letters as well as three diaries in my collection, and at least three times that number in digital copies from various museums, libraries, and family or private collections. And yet not once have I seen the hat directly referred to. I have seen a couple of possible indirect references but no description was given there either. Other than possibly the National Archives in Washington D.C., I believe that I have the largest digital image collection of the men from the Fourth Michigan. But in all of those images, I have never seen a single example where blue is used where tinting a Canadian Hat has been done. If it's out there, I would certainly like to know about it. But I will say that the only images that I have seen where the Canadian hat has been tinted have all been in a maroon with a medium blue tassle.
I am currently the new web-host of 4thmichigan.com and I am considering posting about forty different Canadian hat images based on some of those digital images that I mentioned. However I am concerned that copies would be made from those images on the site (once they are posted), without the courtesy of permission being asked and the proper credit being given, and will have to consider that first. I hate to have to watermark those images for the sake of those that don't follow website protocol in obtaining their copies. Any suggestions?
By the way, how about a good suggestion for a preservation cause that would be near and dear to the men of the Fourth Michigan Infantry? Try saving the battlefield of Shepherdstown Ford. Check out these sites for more information..... www.shafonline.org or www.battleofshepherdstown.org.


Respectfully,
George Wilkinson
Dexter, Michigan

"I am tuff A nuff to cross hell on a wooden bridge to whip a trator"
Private Newell White, Co. B, Fourth Michigan Infantry (Aug. 5th,1861 letter home)

[zouavecampaigner]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

George,
I would just watermark them. That's what I've done in the past on my site, and the owners of the images thought it was best.

Interesting that no first hand accounts have been discovered (yet) of something so near-and-dear to the men's hearts. They're out there...somewhere! I wish I was still in MI so that I could hit up various archives and museums.

Regards,
Shaun

[Jeremy Bevard]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

Hi George,

If you are concerned about the images just put a watermark on them. We had to watermark a few photos that are on the Historic Fort Wayne Coalition website because they are owned by the Detroit Historical Museum. They are done in a way that I do not feel it detracts from the photo at all. If you want to see them a link is below (the watermarked ones are further down the page).

http://historicfortwaynecoalition.co...istorical.html

[4th Michigan Historian]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

Just some thoughts regarding my image posted at :

https://www.fourthtexas.com/federal_orders.htm

The tinting of a photograph by a photographer and or his "artist" was done to emphasize the life-like portrayal of the sitter, in this case a soldier from the Fourth Michigan Infantry. The addition of color would transfer a grayscale portrait into a more realistic composition of the scene / and or sitter captured by the camera's lens. So with that in mind, when color was added, the artist was not at liberty to turn a blue uniform green, or gray hair black, or more specifically a blue hat maroon. The photographer's work would obviously be subject to approval by the sitter and so he was working within the parameters that would honestly portray, and thus please, the customer (soldier) with the colors that were available for him to use. This was especiually so with regard to the addition of color, since the soldier incurred an additional expense for that choice. So tinting a soldier's blue cap into a maroon cap would most likely leave the photographer stuck with the customer's unwanted image!

Continuing in thought..... A northern photographer who's typical customer was a Union soldier, would have relied on blue and gold as the most common colors to use by him (or his artist), with probably red and green to follow. I say that since most of his customers were wearing State and Federal issued uniforms of blue. The gold paint would be required to tint the brass buttons, regimental and company devices, branch of service insignias, as well as belt plates, epaulettes, etc. So I wonder if blue was indeed the most common color used by the photographer's artist, why have I never noticed a single blue tinted fez in the dozen's of "Canadian hat" images that I've seen? And I do not exaggerate when I say that I have seen at least seventy "Canadian hat" images and at least fifteen of those were enhanced in color by the photographer or his artist. Even in those images that I have seen that were identifeid to regiments other than the Fourth Michigan Infantry, red or maroon was the dominant color choice.

So in summary, I believe that unless a period document, letter, diary, etc. is located that spells out the use of a blue cap with a blue tassle, we are speculating that a blue hat with blue tassles was the description of the headgear worn by some of the men of the Fourth Michigan Infantry. And if we rely on the shading in a grayscale ( or even sepia) image to determine that the cap was blue as well as the tassles, we are speculating much more . I find a great deal less speclation in a digitally scrutinized view of period tinted images with reasonable provenance ( identifying them as a soldiers from the Fourth Michigan Infantry) which reveals a maroon body and medium blue tassles.

Author and fellow Fourth Michigan enthusiast, Marty Berterra and I have both agreed with a 90% certainty that the regiment wore Canadian hats, or fezs if you prefer, with a maroon body and blue tassles. But of course the opinions and research of others would be welcome with respect to the blue/ blue color scheme.

Respectfully,
George Wilkinson
Dexter, Michigan

"I am tuff A nuff to cross hell on a wooden bridge to whip a trator"
Private Newell White, Co. B, Fourth Michigan Infantry (Aug. 5th,1861 letter home)

[zouavecampaigner]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

George,

great tinted image! I read your post above, and totally get what you're saying.
However, I see from the posted image that the light-blue trowsers were tinted, and some colour added to the cheeks. The cap and coat, however, were not tinted, nor was the tassel. If the tassel was, indeed, sky blue, would not it be safe to say that, as the trowsers were tinted that colour, the tassel would have been tinted as well?

Again, I only have your wonderful posted image to go off of, but the cap and sack coat are of the same shade in that image. That, of course, does not mean they're the same colour, but it makes one pause to wonder.

Also, as I stated before, a red fez with blue tassel was a widely issued fatigue hat in the early-mid war ear to men of the Union army. As someone who's worn his fair share of fezzes, they get to be all shapes from wear and weather, especially the ones that are made from a "floppier" wool felt, rather than the stiff wool used by some of the sutlers/vendors for reenactors.

Regards,
Shaun Grenan
Gettysburg, PA

[4th Michigan Historian]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

Shaun,
Unfortunately I can not post a more "accurate" representation of the scanned image that we are discussing. I don't want it to appear as if I am enhancing the image in any way, so I have avoided using my Photoshop CS3 program to do anything but scan and brighten the photograph. The second (and enlarged photgraph) that is seen below the "seated view" image does reveal some of the color, but even it is still short of an exact representaion.

But if I could upload a more honest rendition of it, you would find that the tassles are indeed tinted a light blue and the hat is a shade of soft maroon (which was done by applying the same rose colored tint used on the cheeks). I wish that you could see the actual image so that you could understand the difficulty in sharing the image's color.

But I have shown it to a few individuals (some of whom are on the "Maroon hat" buyers list) and apparently all of them seem to have agreed with the description.


I understand that this is still insufficient evidence for some readers though and welcome further questions and comments.

Shaun... if you will send me your email address, I will send you a couple of hat comparison photos that may shed some light on the hat's stiffness.

Respectfully,
George Wilkinson
Dexter, Michigan

"I am tuff A nuff to cross hell on a wooden bridge to whip a trator"
Private Newell White, Co. B, Fourth Michigan Infantry (Aug. 5th,1861 letter home)

[claynpendleton]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

Here is a link to another image of a member of the 4th Michigan wearing such a hat:

http://www.ngb.army.mil/Images1/today/0602.jpg

-Clay Pendleton

[KathyBradford]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

Some of these look a lot like the Michigan ones.

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=1860s+US+Civil+War+source:life&imgurl=3086b6eb7921bc41

"Prob. Sgt. Duane Thompson (in white shirt) standing w. rifle w. his men of 23rd NY Infantry in front of pitched tent during Civil War.
Date taken: 1861
Size: 1280 x 521 pixels (17.8 x 7.2 inches)"

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

Folks,

I know that I'm WAY past a day late and a dollar short on this discussion, but while looking for another image in my files I came across a shot of this cap in the Michigan state library in Lansing. It is a cap identified to a member of 1st Michigan Infantry, and was worn by him at First Bull Run. Hopefully you all find it interesting!




Best,

[garyjd]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

Dan, Super image. ~Gary

[GreencoatCross]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

*#!@!!!! I forgot about that fez and I was there with Dan when he took that!

[JerryGVSU]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

Hello,
I've been interested in the Canada Hats for a while, too, but back when I was with the 4th MI Co. A, I was young and green.

There is a new picture on 4thmichigan.com that is colored with Canada Hats being blue.

http://4thmichigan.com/Company%20K%2...ry%20Image.jpg

However, I can't tell if it was colored at that time or later on by someone who did not take the picture and therefore did not get the colors right.
Also it says that the picture was "(taken from a hand tinted stereoview sold in the "War Views" series published by E. & H.T. Anthony and Co.)" Any information on that might help determine the validity of the color of the hats.

Also, if my memory hasn't failed me, I think I read that the Canada Hats were made by the female population of the town of Adrian, MI, for the regiment as it passed through on its way to DC. Perhaps this led to some of the variations among style and fabric?
Thanks!
(first post on AC, hope I did all right :] )