4th Michigan (canada hat )

[zouavecampaigner]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

Erik,

somewhere there must be a letter referencing the colours of the hats, at least, or a QM report, I hope! Then again, they may just call them "caps" or even, as seen in some newspaper accounts of zouave uniforms, "zouave caps", which can refer to kepis or fez caps. We know that, earlier in the war, fezzes were issued as fatigue hats to numerous units in NY and MA, so I don't think it's a stretch to say that MI may have received them as well (like I mentioned previously, anytime an image of a fez-wearing soldier in a sack coat or state jacket is put up on eBay, they're listed as zouaves, when that's almost never the case). We'll just have to keep digging! This is enough to make me want to head back home to Detroit, just to swing by Adrian!

Also, were not most tuque's tassel-less? At least many Quebec milice ones from the F&I period were. They're more like a Phrygian or Liberty cap. When we did the War That Made America for PBS, the historians had us remove any tassels on them.

Regards,
Shaun

[zouavecampaigner]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

To me, the first image I posted appears to have a seam up the middle on top.....but to me, his hat seems to be knitted. Other images however do not appear to have a seem. Could there of been both? Is there any reason to believe that these soldiers chose their headgear by personal preference of design?

Luke,
are you referring to the light "seam" running horizontally across the middle of the hat? I would say that's not a seam, but, instead, the trim on the bottom of the cap which was folded up for a better fit.



Regards,
Shaun

[KathyBradford]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

Shaun,

From that same great 4th Michigan picture, this is the guy on the right. Notice the seam that runs from the center top down toward his left eye. It follows Erik's description of the hat made from four wedges with a band.



This is fascinating. I went through the 4th's Roster last night, and there are a bunch of my family's names in there. Thank you for this very good discussion and the documented examples.

[zouavecampaigner]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

Kathy,

very interesting, but can we be sure that is, indeed, a seam, and not something from the photo's quality being misinterpreted? Also, Luke was referring to the first image he posted, which wasn't that one. I see what you're referring, too, however. If they were 4-panel construction, with 4 "V"'s, if you will, of material sewn together, might not there be more photos of guys wearing them that show the seams? I have a cap like that, made in red, with a red tassel, for a camp hat, and you can usually see at least 1 seam no matter how I wear it. I'll have to dig it out now, and try some pics at different angles now...

Regards,
Shaun

[KathyBradford]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

Shaun,

You're right. It's hard to be sure of anything, but it has all the characteristics of a seam on sturdy wool felt. The shadow is perfect if that is a seam, and sturdy wool would bend exactly like that. The shape of the hat matches that of one with four sections, much like a mitre cap.

Depending upon the curvature of the sections, that type of cap can lay smoothly against one's head, or it can have bulges where the seams meet. The whole picture is posted on the Fourth's website here, and the owner has requested that it not be copied without his permission. Keep clicking on it, and it enlarges to a very visible size.

http://www.4thmichigan.com/images/Co._D_of_the_Fourth_Mich._Inf._on_picket_duty__cropped_.jpg

The hat you showed in post #47 from the same picture has an interesting shadow across the front of the top. Instead of a gradual shadow that would indicate a smooth, contiguous piece of fabric, there seems to be a more abrupt change at the front of his head, much like a seam would cause.

From the same website, this picture from the Dale Niesen collection shows the shape of that type of hat with larger curves. See how it bulges at both "corners" of the front, but it has a flatter look down the front?



This type of 4-8 section hat was extremely common all the way back at least to the 1600's, with and without tassels, and it was sometimes called a "workman's cap." The beauty of these is that they could be sewn from all types of fabric rather than shaped and formed on a hat block, a more demanding and time-consuming process.

You're right that it's hard to see the seams on most of these. From the shapes and shadows that I've seen on all of these, though, none have been inconsistent with the sectioned form of construction.

The similarities are striking, and I hope this discussion draws more definitive answers and pictures.

[erik]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

Shuan,
You are quite correct as to the standard early French touque being without a tassle. The article that referenced the Canada Cap had a section on Touques showing many period illustrations some by Krieghoff. None show a tassle.
Back to the cap, I would love to see some QM returns but suspect these are state issue or even private purchase and probably did not survive to be reissued in Federal service. The mixture of issue forage caps supports that assumption.
There has got to be someone in Michigan familiar with searching state archives that can step up.

Erik Simundson

[erik]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

Michigan, nothing heard, over.

Erik Simundson

[erik]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

All,

Well here is the fly in the ointment.
As found in American Military Equipage, 1851-1872, Volume II State Forces, by Frederick P. Todd, ISBN 0-684-16862-6(v. 1) 1983.
Page 920, 4th regt
Initially issued state fatigue dress, some comps wore blue Canadian cap with blue tassle, full pants with russet leather gaiters;M1842 musket. 1861: some Enfield rifles issued. 1862-1864: Springfield rifled muskets; U.S. reg inf clothing.
Souces are quoted on page 922 and are predominately Michigan State Adjt General and MS military records held in Lansing.
Well, where do we go now?
Lord states in vol. 1 that the 4th Mich were raised as Zouaves, for what that is worth.

Erik Simundson.

[lukegilly13]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

Luke,
are you referring to the light "seam" running horizontally across the middle of the hat? I would say that's not a seam, but, instead, the trim on the bottom of the cap which was folded up for a better fit.



Regards,
Shaun

I was talkin about the seam that Kathy commented on (vertical from the very top down). The first picture was the large picture that she reposted. That particular hat to me seems to be of heavier knitted material.

[erik]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

Kathy,
Have you noted my post that quotes from American Military Equipage?
Is dark blue wool felt easier to get? (that is probably a really dumb question, if it was half the union reactors would be running around in their drawers)
If you can turn some why don't you take a crack at making a four panel, dark blue cap with the three inch turnup and sky blue tassle for me, size 7 1/4.

Erik simundson

[KathyBradford]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

Is this the shape you had in mind, Erik? I don't have wool felt on hand, but this is made from wool flannel that I shrunk today. The tassel is Mrs. Lawson's hand spun, hand dyed indigo wool yarn. All input is welcome.

[erik]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

You have hit the nail right on the head. Flannel doesn't
matter for the sample but it might be best to seek wool felt for any production.
Does the tassle have a bulb or finial at the top?
I don't care for the puffy look to the crown in the original as compared to the general shape of those in Brady's Camp pictures, but that may be a result of turning up the band.
Should we go to PM or email now that we are going of topic with the production of a sample?

Erik Simundson

[lukegilly13]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

VERY good repro! I think you nailed it!

[recruiter4thmichigan]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

looks pretty good so far the only thing i can see and say is that yes it needs to be made from felt and lined some way , the tassle needs to be just alittle longer and fuller with a bulb on top. But the sample does look pretty close

[erik]

Re: 4th Michigan (canada hat )

Steve,
I will fund this one sample for Co. C and get some black and whites.
Are you content with the references to date?

Erik