Soldiers Poltical or Moral affiliations

[Indianabugles]

I quite often hear and have previously heard in character reasons for the Northern soldier fighting such as, because I had no work, because my wife would have been ashamed of me, because my brother signed up and I am here to keep an eye on him etc etc etc.
I have no real issue with any of the above.
We have thankfully ceased to hear because we are fighting to free the slaves. I say this, not because I didn't wish that it were true, but as we an Indiana regiment, farm boys and not city folk as such and from what I have read and looked at it is doubtful that such deep abolitionist thinking would have been present. (please correct me if I am wrong)
I personally am sad at this as I am a massive, no really massive fan of Loyd Garrison and his work, but personal preference and modern thinking should not be allowed to screw up a historical representation. We also have a NY Irish Brigade and I somewhat doubt that Abolition and emancipation would have been top on their agenda either.
On saying all of that though the top reasons seem a little lame.
Our Sgt (War Democrat) states he is fighting for the Union, he came to one country, pays his taxes to be part of one country and is damned if he is going to let it be taken apart by traitors.(This I Like) He then goes on to say that South has had too much disproportionate power in congress and it is about time it got sorted out. (More like a fighting spirit)
I personally like to portray a Republican, One man one vote, Proportional representation and am fighting for, again a more fair system in the higher echelons of government. (One man one vote can be used to take a sideswipe at slavery under the 3/5 rule without going all abolitionist)
I have also heard the expat reason (British/Irish enlistee) That we came over ere to get away from inequality and we are damned if we are going to let it happen here as well.
Now my question is, and wow that explanation is way bigger than I intended it to be,
1.Would such political thinking have been prevalent?
2.Would it have been, as we actually have it a mix of personal reasons, like the top, and political reasons? (I think the ratio is about 5-1 for personal-Political at the moment.)
3.Would Religious thinking have influenced this any? (although this sails a tad close to Garrison.)

I have my own thoughts on this but would like to see what others think who may have studied this deeper, in different directions or simply from her perspectives than I.
I would also be very happy if people could suggest further period political or personal reasons for Northerners fighting as we have new members looking for them.

[john.vansickle]

Re: Soldiers Poltical or Moral affiliations

As you pointed out, there were probably very distinct differences based on one's ethnicity, as in the Germans and Irish, who both had a very personal desire for political and social equality, at least for themselves. There were probably also distinct regional differences. In my research of the units recruited early on for the "emergency", there were very early references to abolition. Northern Ohio, Western New York, and Michigan were all areas which supported the abolitionist movement very strongly. These were also areas which were settled by New Englanders belonging to the Congregational Church so perhaps there's a corollary. New England proper was also very strongly abolitionist. John Brown's hometown of Hudson, Ohio is one of these very towns. The town I grew up in, Rochester, Michigan had several houses which had been involved in the Underground Railroad. Michigan is also considered the home of the Republican Party which had abolition as one of its primary platform. With that as a basis, abolition could be worked into an historical impression.

IMHO, I think if a person was portraying a soldier in a unit raised from any of these areas, abolition may have been a large, motivating factor. If a person is portraying an immigrant soldier or a farmer from Southern Ohio or Indiana, there might be a much different motivator. This is much like the Southerner who is fighting for the abstract notion of "state's rights" even though those rights don't apply to his socio-economic class. The key might be to research through diaries, letters, and other primary sources of the soldiers of the particular unit being researched.

--John Van Sickle

[jigadier brindle]

Re: Soldiers Poltical or Moral affiliations

Mr. Van Sickle,

No reason to reinvent the wheel. Professor James McPherson published a landmark study on this very question in his excellent work entitled, "For Cause and Comrades: Why Men Fought in the Civil War."

Also, you may wish to review Bell Irvin Wiley's "The Life of Johnny Reb: The Common Soldier of the Confederacy" and "The Life of Billy Yank: The Common Soldier of the Union" as these set the stage for most studies to follow (including McPherson's work).

For a more contextual look at this question I would also recommend Professor Gary Gallagher's "The Confederate War" for a look at Confederate reasons for enlisting within the greater context of the southern war effort. In that same vein you might also consider a revisionist text on the matter that runs somewhat contrary to Gallagher's work but provides excellent insight written by Armstead L. Robinson, entitled, "Bitter Fruits of Bondage: The Demise of Slavery and The Collapse of the Confederacy."

This just scratches the surface as there is plenty of scholarly information published on this matter and in no way do I contend that these works constitute a full historiography on the subject.

Consult these sources and I think you'll find some answers.


-Nicholas Redding

[jigadier brindle]

Re: Soldiers Poltical or Moral affiliations

Just out of curiosity, what taxes is he referring to?

Our Sgt (War Democrat) states he is fighting for the Union, he came to one country, pays his taxes to be part of one country and is damned if he is going to let it be taken apart by traitors.

[LWhite64]

Re: Soldiers Poltical or Moral affiliations

I would recommend Chandra Manning's WHAT THIS CRUEL WAR WAS OVER, she delves into this and uses a lot of soldier accounts. Another factor that you should figure in is what is called "practical abolitionism", that is that US soldiers might join for the cause of the Union, but after seeing slavery in its reality, their opinions of it change, that along with seeing it destroyed is the easiest way to defeat the Confederacy and the power behind it.

Lee

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Soldiers Poltical or Moral affiliations

Hallo!

"The key might be to research through diaries, letters, and other primary sources of the soldiers of the particular unit being researched."

No.
IMHO... when it comes to personal, social, religious, ethnic, socio-economical or class, or even regional- when it comes to specific men in specific units at specific times in specific places, to avoid generalities and generalizations:

The key IS to research through diaries, letters, and other primary sources of the soldiers of the particular unit being researched.

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt
I fights mit Siegel Mess

[J. Donaldson]

Re: Soldiers Poltical or Moral affiliations

There is also reason to support the Republican party beyond the anti-slavery plank in their platform. The party absorbed the ideology of the collapsed Free-Soil party, and as such anyone who supported the concept of free or cost-controlled access to the western lands held by the government would be attracted to Republican rhetoric. I would recomend looking at Eric Foner's Free Soil, Free Labor, Free Men as an exploration of the support of the early Republican party.

[10TnVI]

Re: Soldiers Poltical or Moral affiliations

I think this quote pretty much sums things up-

Here's a primary source- from the book "Dear Companion", The Civil War letters of Silas I. Shearer
(Silas is a little weak on punctuation). he served in the 23rd Iowa
letter written from Brasheir City, La. Sept 23, 1863

"You to say about the negros as far as that is concerned I have nothing much to say for my eyes don't see as they did when I left home. Since I have got down here and seen what slavery was and where it had run to it changed me in a political since(sic) of view Slavery is what caused this War and the principle of it has changed me considerable. I have had prisioners to tell me that it made no difference how much a man was worth He was nothing thought of unless he owned a Negro or two and a poor man was not as much thought of as a Negro and I think the best thing we can do is wipe Slavery out but do not think it will be done at present but I do not think we will have Slavery directly but indirectly. I think it will be a gradual emanicipation and what will be fit for the Army will be put init. They are just as good Soldiers as the Whites They look like men when uniformedof I have seen regiment with commisioned officers of there(sic) own color and they look sniptiouis. Those men North that is so bitterly opposed to the emancipation of Slavery had serve as long a time in the South as I have There ideas would change two(sic) you people North reading knowes nothing about such things without experience. Experience teaches a dear School but fools will learn no other and the South is beginning to find out. Taking the negros from the South and arming them is one of the greatest blows that was struck. To put this rebellion down you people North may not see it but I see it here very plane(sic0. Now you may take me to be an abolitionist but that matter nothing. I am a War Democrat and you may call them what you please."
__________________
Leland Hares, 10th Tennessee (U.S.)

[john.vansickle]

Re: Soldiers Poltical or Moral affiliations

Mr. Redding,
I have those books and have read them. My post was in response to the opening post which was in reference to soldier's "political or moral affiliations" (motivations). The question I inferred was "what would possible motivators be for soldiers in addition to, or as an alternate to anti-slavery beliefs". This is all in relation to developing a first person persona. I was merely suggesting that there were cases, based on primary source research that there were indeed cases of anti-slavery beliefs and that there may be some connection to religion, socio-economic class, and/or migration patterns. I was merely attempting to offer a little direction to the writer of the opening post. Were I at home instead of Iraq, I would have included supporting primary source excerpts. While being employed by the Western Reserve Historical Society, I spent a great deal of time going through the collections of period documents. As I stated in my post, anti-slavery might be a "motivator" in some areas more than others when developing an historical impression. I was simply stating that in some instances, there was an anti-slavery sentiment among Northern soldiers particularly from those in New England and along the Eastern Great Lakes.

Curt,
I agree with you. While it's not good to make generalities and generalizations, one might get the sense of a unit's "personality" by reading accounts written by members. The way I do this is to try to find three or more corroborating sources before making a hypothesis. ...and that's all it is, a hypothesis. If we look at memoirs and accounts written after the fact, they may be memories altered by time or altered by design. Even those written at the moment, or shortly after may be inaccurate for a variety of reasons.

If someone is developing a persona, and that's what the opening post was about, these types of ideas are useful. A living historian could take bits and pieces of material gleaned from primary sources and create a "composite" personality. I also apologize for using the word "might" in regards to research. As a mental health professional, I often get in the habit of using "soft suggestions" rather than definitive "this is what you do" type phrases.

Respectfully,
John Van Sickle

[jigadier brindle]

Re: Soldiers Poltical or Moral affiliations

Mr. Van Sickle,

There was certainly some confusion on my part, my post should have read:

"Mr. Sprakes . . . "

As I mistook you as the original poster. I apologize, no harm intended on my part whatsoever.

[lukegilly13]

Re: Soldiers Poltical or Moral affiliations

IMHO, I think if a person was portraying a soldier in a unit raised from any of these areas, abolition may have been a large, motivating factor. If a person is portraying an immigrant soldier or a farmer from Southern Ohio or Indiana, there might be a much different motivator.... The key might be to research through diaries, letters, and other primary sources of the soldiers of the particular unit being researched.

--John Van Sickle

For the most part I would agree with you however, I'm not sure sure it can be regionalized. I think it is MUCH more on an individual basis.

Please excuse the language in the following post:
The Letters of Henry Brown
21st Massachusetts Volunteer Militia
"...You must take good care of Freddy for I want to see him again. How does father get along with the house? What is he doing? Does he get plenty of work?
What does he think of the nigger question? I have had an opportunity to see how the negroes are treated and to see what kind of people they are. There is not one half as intelligent as a dog and they are a great deal more inhuman looking. They are fit for nothing but slaves. Everyone wants a good stern master or the nigger will be master himself. I think that if they are freed they ought to all be shipped to Africa. I had a great deal rather fight for the Southern Confederacy than fight to free the niggers. There is a great many of them that are officers servants and the privates have to wait on them more than they wait on the officers."
Taken from the espd website.
Now we know that everyone in Mass. didn't feel this way! I think if you are going to regionalize it...then it needs to be by where the soldier served. In some areas slaves were not treated as badly as others. I think we all agree that slavery is and was wrong and bad in itself. However, there were those owners who were good to their slaves and treated them as good or better than some northern factory workers. In other words, I think it would depend more on what type of slavery the northerner had been exposed to.

For the impression...I think the person should use their personal feelings and beliefs but you cannot forget to use the 1800's context. Don't assume that all northerners that were against slavery were pro equal rights. Lincoln and Sherman are great examples of this. Also try not to fall into the grove that all southerners were pro-slavery. Religion does play into this...but using Jackson as an example...some believed slavery to be morally acceptable as this is how they were raised. I cannot quote the book exactly, but I believe Robertson would agree with me that Jackson believed slaves to be the cursed descendents of Abraham's son Lot. Politics were certainly involved. Some were more interested in politics than others. My thinking is that it would vary GREATLY from person to person depending on their education or ability to know about he politics...as well as cultural surroundings (personal reasons...slavery, pride, etc).

[Indianabugles]

Re: Soldiers Poltical or Moral affiliations

This was a tad more contentious than I had realized and massively more subjective to boot.
I have located a source for the Mcpherson book, just so happens to be our in the possession of our Sgt who has gone off to check what taxes were being levied on Citizens back then, first time he has not been able to give me a on the spot reply although he suspects a goods tax. I will answer the question as soon as he comes back to me on it. He is normally one of most well versed individuals on the Civil War I know in Meatspace. It is also down to him that I originally posted as he and disagreed a little on what was and was not back then surrounding this issue and he has been more responsible for educating me on the background politics etc than anyone else so I waned to be well equipped when I next saw him.
Thank You Mr Redding
While I do not intend to be moving from my home in the Indiana Regiment I will pass on to some of my society the Ohio abolitionist thoughts. There is at least one member of the Ohio Regiment that can build on this.
Thank You John Van Sickle
I had not considered, slapz self very hard on forehead for this one, the Practical side, having seen Slavery in reality, of this issue and how one might be affected emotionally and Politically. This one I will save for later War impressions as the 19th was in Virginia. I had become to bogged down in what they were thinking and not how it may have changed.
Thank you for the mental wake up call Mr White.
The comment about the Republican party also led to an interesting conversation which due to I now have a better understanding of its conception and a much clearer understanding of the hemorage and demise of the Whigs.
Thank you Robert Welch
Thanks also for all those that took time to post clips etc and other suggestions. This has been, and suspect will continue to be, of much help and a sack full of food for thought.

After reading all this I have to agree with the Curts comment that this is a very individual interpretation but although it would be good to avoid generalities I consider it would also be sensible to not stray to far from the generalities of the area the Regiment came from, rather use them as a base guideline rather than as a rule. I always a little wary of diaries and letters as they sometimes represent what is though and felt and not what is said and done and it is the later the public etc will see. But if they are first and accounts of evens than they are of great value.
I am not fortunate to have a great deal of time for research as much of my time not allocated to work etc, is taken researching Civil War music, which is ongoing as once you have researched it you have to learn to play it, and then keep practicing it to maintain standard while learning and researching new stuff. On Saying that I am currently reading Walt Whitman's Specimen Days as it was gifted to me.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Soldiers Poltical or Moral affiliations

our Sgt who has gone off to check what taxes were being levied on Citizens back then, first time he has not been able to give me a on the spot reply although he suspects a goods tax. I will answer the question as soon as he comes back to me on it.

Property tax was the first thing that came to mind. Like in the minstrel song: "The taxes am so very high, the rents they climb up to the sky." There was an income tax on higher incomes during the war, which he'd probably not qualify for, and also some licensing fees and stamps required on various things, not a big issue if his main income is from the military.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[fedcampaigner]

Re: Soldiers Poltical or Moral affiliations

As others have stated I don't think there are many generalizations on this issue. Each man both north and south had his own reasons to fight. Some were fighting to protect their homes, some were just doing their duty as soldiers(regulars), some were abolitionists, etc. Like modern day servicemen they all had their own reasons to enlist. I think social class, hometown and religion may influence ones reasons for fighting but in the end it comes down to the individual man.

[Indianabugles]

Re: Soldiers Poltical or Moral affiliations

Sgt replied!
"It was a more an expression - I guess another way of putting it was that they where 'Fightin' for their Rights' i.e. not to be bullied and dominated by the slave-holders down south, although I guess that quote has been used elsewhere
Actually the first income tax was levied in 1861 to pay for the Civil War."
So this more or less runs with what Hank Trent says.
Apologies Fed Campaigner, generalizations was a bad word. What I mean to express was nothing extremely radical.