Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Who makes the best 61 Springfield at this time...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: Who makes the best 61 Springfield at this time...

    Hallo!

    Yes, when dealing with reproductions, it is always a matter of which is the "Best of the Worst" and to what extent can "some things" be done in the realm of "After Market" alterations to try to slide the needle a little further up the historically accurate gauge.

    The second consideration is that lads who are not familiar or researched as to "originals" (the Gold Standard for how reproductions should be rated in how hit-or-miss they are compared to the original item) often praise and rate highly reproductions that fail the standard.

    Even among ArmiSport and EuroArm reproductions there is also "generational" issues as both of these makers have changed their products over the decades since they were first introduced. So, when buying used, one may be looking at say 1996 example which is not the same as a 2006.
    (For example I worked on a mid 1990's EuroArms with a thin stamped metal buttplate and thin stamped metal barrel bands that were spot welded to form the closed "loop" of the barrel bands.)

    If it has not changed recently, exacting reproductions are only available as "custom-builts" (a long neglected, overlooked, and rarely utiized resource for improving the qualaity of our longarms).
    Yes, they currently tend to run about roughly $1600 or so. However,
    "pre owned" and "used" ones can sometimes be had for as low as $600-800.
    (The last four of mine I sold for between $600-700, and a unfired Fayetteville rifle went for a steal at only $400 at an auction- less than the cost of the parts to build it.)

    And yes... when one moves up the Sliding Scale of Imperfection, some lads
    "retrofit" restored original parts to the Italian reproductions such as lockplates, hammers, and rear sights- or the exacting reproduction of those original parts made by Rich Cross (which helps with issues of high cost for mint parts, higher cost for restorable condition parts, or availability, etc., etc).

    If I remember correctly.. Chattahoochie offered the SM1861 in all three of its maker variations.
    And I thought that the Colt Signature series "Colt SM1861" was polished to chrome mirror finish. I had one on the rack for a few months but never thought to check to see if it was actually chrome plated as I sold it before "de-farbing" it. ;) :)

    Curt
    Curt Schmidt
    In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

    -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
    -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
    -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
    -Vastly Ignorant
    -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Who makes the best 61 Springfield at this time...

      Surprised nobody has mentioned John Zimmerman out of Harpers Ferry :



      From all I have heard he is one of the best makers, however his custom work will cost you a pretty penny. The nice thing is that he also does an excellent job of de-farbing weapons for a fairly reasonable price.

      -Clay Pendleton
      Clay N. Pendleton
      Muncie, Ind.
      Memberships:
      CWPT, NTHP, AASLH, AAM, Phi Alpha Theta, NAWCC

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Who makes the best 61 Springfield at this time...

        Hallo!

        One possible reason why might still be available through the SEARCH feature where past discussions of Mr. Zimmerman's work took place.

        (The long and the short of it being that while it appears Mr. Zimmerman does some first rate, excellent work- there are documented times and instances where things are questionable.)

        Others' mileage will vary...

        Curt
        Curt Schmidt
        In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

        -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
        -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
        -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
        -Vastly Ignorant
        -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Who makes the best 61 Springfield at this time...

          The long and the short of it being that while it appears Mr. Zimmerman does some first rate, excellent work- there are documented times and instances where things are questionable.)
          Interesting, I have never seen or heard of poor work done by Zimmerman before now. I guess "the times they are a-changin" I do believe however that a few people can have a bad experience, they get upset and the first thing they do is run to the forums to vent. As was said in the previous post, individual experiences differ.

          I think the best advice when making a pricey investment in a musket is to shop around and examine carefully before buying. As far as the most accurate modern replica goes none will ever match the look and feel of an orginal. All the originals I have held have been lighter and less bulky...1) due to thinner metal used in the barrels (which would likely not meet safety standards today for excessive blank firing) and 2) better quality wood/carving of stock. I had the chance 6 years ago to buy an original CS issued Enfield in mint condition for $750...I doubt I'll ever get an opportunity like that again!

          -Clay
          Clay N. Pendleton
          Muncie, Ind.
          Memberships:
          CWPT, NTHP, AASLH, AAM, Phi Alpha Theta, NAWCC

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Who makes the best 61 Springfield at this time...

            Originally posted by claynpendleton View Post
            Interesting, I have never seen or heard of poor work done by Zimmerman before now. I guess "the times they are a-changin" I do believe however that a few people can have a bad experience, they get upset and the first thing they do is run to the forums to vent. As was said in the previous post, individual experiences differ.

            Clay,

            Here's a four-year old post on the subject. It ain't the economy or changing times, I'm afraid. Just more of the same. Check it out!


            Read the post and look at the pics, then check out the rest of the thread.

            Take Care,
            John Wickett
            Former Carpetbagger
            Administrator (We got rules here! Be Nice - Sign Your Name - No Farbisms)

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Who makes the best 61 Springfield at this time...

              Hallo!

              That link came up for me just as a single post (#47) out of the whole thread?

              Try the Monster Thread:



              Curt
              Last edited by Curt Schmidt; 10-19-2008, 11:56 AM.
              Curt Schmidt
              In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

              -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
              -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
              -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
              -Vastly Ignorant
              -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Who makes the best 61 Springfield at this time...

                Originally posted by Dan Wambaugh View Post
                Benedict,

                I have not yet had a chance to examine any of the Mirokus, but am interested in doing some at some point. I agree, the two piece stock would be a big turnoff for me and need to be replaced, but it sounds as though they at least started off on the right foot.
                Actually, to correct things, my Miroku 1861's stock is one piece.
                Bene von Bremen

                German Mess

                "I had not previously known one could get on, even in this unsatisfactory fashion, with so little brain."
                Ambrose Bierce "What I Saw of Shiloh"

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Who makes the best 61 Springfield at this time...

                  :)
                  Originally posted by artillerybuff View Post
                  The 1861 Colt Special Musket is a very fine shooter and nicely made with correct proofs etc. I have won matches with it hitting targets off the shoulder at 300 yards.

                  Unfortunately they are out of production, however you can still find them new in the box in various places for around $900.00.


                  2nd Lt. Anthony A. Variz
                  Battery D 5th US
                  Like the one I bought off of Bryan O Keefe here on the AC just recently.:)
                  to fix the chrome shine on the barrel and other metal parts, I just spent a couple bucks at Ace Hardware on a fine sanding sponge and before I went to bed that night the chrome look was gone and in it's place was a nice burnished look.
                  Last edited by KPavia; 08-10-2009, 07:26 PM.
                  Kenny Pavia
                  24th Missouri Infantry

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Who makes the best 61 Springfield at this time...

                    There was a US 1861 Dixie Miroku kit on gunbroker.com recently, probably still on there. It was around $600 unassembled. Other than that, those kits are basically gone now, but like the old Birmingham made Parker Hales, they pop up here and there on auctions or on here from time to time.

                    The Colt Special Model of 1861 is essentially a hybrid, but closer to an Enfield than it is to a US 1861. The reproduction ought shoot just as well as an Armi Sport US 1863, because that is what it is. See the Armi Chiappa website, item # 910.026. Stamped with "Colt" it costs 50% more, which is called "marketing."

                    I don't know that either of the Italian made (Armi Sport or EoA) US 1861s are all that good as serious (re)enactor weapons. The EoA is the better of the two cosmetically and the lock is better, but it is about 20% heavier than an original US 1861 and there is not much you can do about it. Hope that helps.
                    Craig L Barry
                    Editor, The Watchdog, a non-profit 501[c]3
                    Co-author (with David Burt) Suppliers to the Confederacy
                    Author, The Civil War Musket: A Handbook for Historical Accuracy
                    Member, Company of Military Historians

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Who makes the best 61 Springfield at this time...

                      Craig beat me on the Colt piece. It is not a "Colt" manufacutred gun...just an Italian with engravings.

                      Bigtime Colt collector / historian here, hell my son's name is Colt.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Who makes the best 61 Springfield at this time...

                        Here's the reason why the Colt contract rifle resembles an enfield plus pictures of an original Colt M1861.
                        http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/colt-1...act-musket.htm

                        And if the colt special contract repros are really AS 1863's with Italian markings, mine must have been skipped because it has no Italian markings on it, with the only modern marking being the colt signature on the trigger guard.

                        Mine has all the markings shown on the original minus the JLC inspector mark.
                        Kenny Pavia
                        24th Missouri Infantry

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Who makes the best 61 Springfield at this time...

                          Craig knows more about the fake Colts than me..but I believe they were not imported as complete rifles (parts kits) and final assembled here in the USA thus the lack of Italian import marks and proofs.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Who makes the best 61 Springfield at this time...

                            Hallo

                            I have always wondered about what that means exactly.

                            An Insider's Tidbit is that one can simply remove the lock from the gun and the entire thing can be sent as "parts."

                            ;) :)

                            Curt
                            Curt Schmidt
                            In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

                            -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
                            -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
                            -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
                            -Vastly Ignorant
                            -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Who makes the best 61 Springfield at this time...

                              Then what would be the penalty, if there is one, for someone attaching Sam colt's signature to a rifle and then passing it off as a colt?
                              Kenny Pavia
                              24th Missouri Infantry

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Who makes the best 61 Springfield at this time...

                                If you are importing "parts" then you are not importing complete firearms and the restrictions are much less. If you are not exporting complete firearms Italy's proof and marking requirements don't come into play.

                                In terms of modern firearms, Federal law has been amended to prevent assembly of foreign rifles and handguns with the passage of equally restrictive covenants. One way is prohibited importation of barrels or receivers and a minimum required domestic parts and feature count (in the case of handguns). The little indention for your thumb on a 2nd Generation or newer Glock (Austria) handgun is prime example of a feature count as an imported handgun requires a "target style" sporting thumb rest ! Firearms and parts import /export now require State Department approval as well.

                                However, imported black powder parts when assembled domestically are still not defined as a "firearm" by Federal law and require no SOT or FFL. I think Dixie Gun Works, Navy Arms, Cimmarron operate under this premise from the Italian makers. AS / EA export a crate of barrels (custom stamped for the import assembler), crate of stocks, lock parts etc and they are put together here in the US for OTC or mail order consumption.
                                Last edited by OldKingCrow; 08-11-2009, 04:07 PM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X