Authentic and Correct P53 Enfield Ramrod?

[kb466]

I am building a P53 Enfield out of original parts with new barrel and stock, and I am in need of a ramrod. Does anyone make and sell a correct and accurately made 1853 Enfield ramrod? I would like to find one that is one-piece with the correct head and tapered shaft. Thanks for any leads.
Bill Moyers

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Authentic and Correct P53 Enfield Ramrod?

Hallo!

If I am not misremembering, or they have not changed over the years...

Shiloh Relics (Savannah, TN) used to offer "the best" repro P1853 Enfield ramrod sized more in line with originals than the oversized Italian repros.

However, the end was left unthreaded to allow the buyer to thread it according to any particular length issues or the nature of the tools to be used on it.

Curt

[cap tassel]

Re: Authentic and Correct P53 Enfield Ramrod?

Out of curiosity how much bigger an Italian repro ramrod compared to the originals? Was there a specified diameter on the originals?

[Benedict]

Re: Authentic and Correct P53 Enfield Ramrod?

http://www.shilohrelics.com/cgi-bin/Display_Item.asp?89370

[David Fox]

Re: Authentic and Correct P53 Enfield Ramrod?

I received a P.53 replica rammer from Shiloh this summer, due to an earlier thread. Am satisfied with it, though there were hard-to-erase tool marks on the throat below the head. Had threads cut in the butt of the rammer by a gunsmith to fit an original worm, after cutting it for length. All Italian rammers I tried at Gettysburg in September would not fit in the channel of my original P.53. Too fat. I note in the new Atlanta Cutlery catalogue, recieved last week, that original P.53 rammers from Napal are being separately sold for under $40 a pop(!) If they'll fit and are otherwise correct, Hallajulah!

[CJ Roberts]

Re: Authentic and Correct P53 Enfield Ramrod?

An interesting discussion. While I'm no expert on the P53 Enfield, I have been facsinated by this weapon since the mid 1980s after reading Geoff Walden's excellent article, Authenticizing Your Reproduction Enfield. I was intrigued by this discussion of original versus reproduction rammer sizes. I have often heard it stated that the Italian reproduction rammers are "fatter" than the originals. For what it is worth...having access to a couple of reproductions, as well as a couple of originals, I decided to do some comparisons. I will soon post a photo (I'm having trouble getting the image to upload) comparing the heads of the five rammers used. The first two are original rammers (a London contract and a Birmingham gun). The third is from an Armisport. The fourth from a Euroarms. The fifth is supposedly a Shiloh Relics reproduction (I say supposedly because I bought this second-hand and have no way to verify). I used a Vernier caliper to measure the diameters of each rammer at the point immediately below the head, the approximate middle, and the point immediately prior to the threaded area. The results are as follows:

London contract Rammer (original)
9mm
6.5mm
6mm

Birmingham (original)
8mm
7mm
6mm

Armisport (reproduction)
7.5mm
6.5mm
6.5mm

Euroarms (reproduction)
7mm
6.5mm
6.5mm

Other (reported to be a Shiloh Relics rod)
6mm
6mm
no threads

Curiously, I found the original rammers to be the "fatter" of the rammers compared. I had no trouble getting the reproduction rammers to fit in the original guns. As with all things Enfield, I'm sure one can find numerous examples of original rammers that are smaller than the reproductions (as others have already attested to on this thread) and thus, make the repros fat by comparison, but this was not my experience. More troubling to me was the difference in the shape of the head of the originals versus the reproductions, but I suppose that's is best saved for another thread.

[Jimmayo]

Re: Authentic and Correct P53 Enfield Ramrod?

I note in the new Atlanta Cutlery catalogue, recieved last week, that original P.53 rammers from Napal are being separately sold for under $40 a pop(!) If they'll fit and are otherwise correct, Hallajulah!

Careful! I have seen some dealers selling original P-53 muskets with the Mark III Snider cleaning rod which is almost the correct size up to where it enters the channel at the nose cap. It then tapers down to the appoximate diameter of the threaded portion at the end. The correct P53 ram rod will be thicker than the threaded portion. I don't know what is going on with your original but repro ramrods in my originals fit pretty well and may be a tad looser than the originals. My early Parker Hale ramrod fits just like an original. I don't know who made my other two repro ramrods but one is a one piece rod.

The picture to the left below shows a Snider cleaning rod on top and an original ramrod on the bottom. The tip of the Snider rod may be squared off on some.

The second picture shows the difference in the diameter of the rods further down near the threaded end.

[David Fox]

Re: Authentic and Correct P53 Enfield Ramrod?

I dunno. Early last month at Gettysburg I tried several replica Enfield rammers in an original 1862-date Birmingham P.53. All were no go. Appeared to be products of two manufacturers. Whilst frustrating myself attacking a bin of repro rods at Regimental Quartermasters, the fella said none would fit; all would be too fat. He was right. Pulled an original P.53 of theirs off the wall for trial w/ the same results. Ramrod channel was simply too narrow. Shiloh product slides right in w/ a near-audible sigh of relief from the Enfield itself.

[Clsinclair]

Re: Authentic and Correct P53 Enfield Ramrod?

I purchased several reproduction ramrods from Dixie Gun Works for my Original Enfield. They fit and they were not as thick as the other reproductions being sold by other sutlers. I also purchased some orginal back-up parts from Dixie such as a main spring etc. But I will probably never need it. My Enfield is an 1856 that I purchased many years ago from the Horse Soldier in Gettysburg.

[Benedict]

Re: Authentic and Correct P53 Enfield Ramrod?

I wonder if the DGW ramrod is the same as the Shiloh Relics one since both are unthreaded?

[CJ Roberts]

Re: Authentic and Correct P53 Enfield Ramrod?

Here is the photo that accompanies my earlier post.

[Benedict]

Re: Authentic and Correct P53 Enfield Ramrod?

Thanks a lot for sharing! Facts and figures.

[John of the Skulkers Mess]

dunno

Could it be the channels are skinny and not that the rammers are 'fat' I wonder aloud...

Not sure where my repro Enfield even is,

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Authentic and Correct P53 Enfield Ramrod?

Hallo!

In brief and to over-generalize....

IMHO, this can be an "apples and oranges" discussion as Third Model "Enfields" are not made to one mass-produced standard as they were "hand made" by a number of makers.

;) :)

Curt

[McKim]

Re: Authentic and Correct P53 Enfield Ramrod?

Here is the photo that accompanies my earlier post.

Thanks CJ,

You got my curiosity up so I had to measure mine also. I used a micrometer and as you will understand the reading below the head leaves room for variation.

Armi
Inch .332 .274 .272
MM 8.4 6.9 6.9


Euro
Inch .308 .274 .274
MM 7.8 6.9 6.9