Need help with an M1841 MS rifle

[Prodical Reb]

While perusing some local pawn shops I found this older M1841, .58 cal Mississippi rifle repro. The price was pretty good ($200) so I bought it. It is a Garrett Arms, made in Italy repro. I know the front sight is just dead wrong, the rear sight is knocked off (but was included in the patch box; a 500 yard 3 leaf sight), spare cone mounted in a hole in patch box:) and half cock doesn't hold the hammer when the trigger is pulled:(. I'm going to fix the front sight situation and the 1/2 cock safety issue. Anybody else out there have any M1841s by Frank H. Garrett?

I've read Curt's older posts (QHTs & parts I-IV) about M1841 variations but some pics of what is right would have been more useful with those posts. What would be some good reference books to know what way to go with this project? Also need the help of a good gunsmith in the N. Virginia area; any suggestions?

I would also agree that a small arms section in the "Camp of Instruction" or "Authenticity" area is needed.

[Iceman]

Re: Need help with an M1841 MS rifle

You've also got a .54 cal. ramer for your .58 cal. rifle. S&S sells the steel .58 cal. arsenal supplied rammer.

[Canebrake Rifle Guards]

Re: Need help with an M1841 MS rifle

I'm thinking you got a good deal. Garrett used to cater to the NSSA crowd so I think your gun is made for shooting (meaning its well put together). And its probably 20-30 years old.

Garrett used to have a retail gun shop in Southern Shopping Center (apropos) in Norfolk. I remember visiting it as a teenager, it was candyland.

Greg Starbuck

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Need help with an M1841 MS rifle

Hallo!

IMHO, a "good deal" for the price.

It sounds like you will likely need a new sear or tumbler depending upon whether the problem is the sear tip or the tumbler's half-cock notch shape.

The repro sight is for an M1861 Springfield. (Some M1841 alterations used the late pattern M1855 Rifle Musket, M1855 Rifle "short range" rear sights, a sword bayonet mounting lug, a short upper band/nose cap, and a cupped "Minie" style ramrod when they were redone as .58's.

In brief and to over-generalize...

IMHO, the most easiest and cheapest route to go is to "restore" it to a standard unaltered M1841 by readding the "Kentucky Rifle" style simple "V" notched block rear sight and the brass front blade.

Decent published references on the M1841 and the several post 1854ish alterations (to make it more in-line with the M1855 Rifle) are... largely non-existant. IMHO, most all of the info is still in the heads of collectors and some gun-builders based upon experience with originals and the paucity of scraps of info that can be gleaned from a pretty barren field.

There is going to be a monograph on M1841's in the future CS reference/compendium "The Wearing of the Gray."

Herr Blair (Taylor), who posts here, does M1841 and alteration work. You may want to contact him and ask...

Curt

[Jimmayo]

Re: Need help with an M1841 MS rifle

I have owned two of these Garrett 41s. One was a good shooter and one was not. The one that had shooting problems was corrected by crowning the barrel. These guns were not approved by the small arms committee of NSSA because of a measurement taken from the front band to the end of the barrel or some sort of measurement problem. Sounded like politics to me but that is just my opinion. The one that didn't shoot accurately also had a lock problem. I believe it was called a birds beak sear or something like that which was broken . Perhaps Curt knows what I am talking about. Anyway Rich Cross made the part which was sold by lodgewood that fixed it. As with most 41s the half cock will be low. Garret made these arms using some of the old Goldrush parts which were left over when they went out of business. Bottom line is you got a good deal.

[Prodical Reb]

Re: Need help with an M1841 MS rifle

Thanks for the info on the Garrett M1841! I'm always willing to add a new pony in the stable for a good deal. This seemed to be when I saw it.

Is the hammer screw correct with the phillips/straight blade combo screwdriver slot? I would think that only a slotted blade would be correct.

I think that since it is a .58 I'm going to choose an altered M1841; but which one I'm going to research some more. Many differnt alterations and some are irreversible like turning down the end of the barrel to accept a socket bayonet. Also would attaching the current rear sight by brazing or a screw be best? A screw would involve drilling and tapping the hole.

Jim, you are correct when you said that 1/2 cock was low near the cone. It is approx a 1/4 in clearance. I'm going to take off the lock plate tonight and hopefully diagnose the problem with the 1/2 cock. Hopefully it is a loose screw or dirty notch or something easy but this isn't usually my luck! It will probably be the most expensive or difficult fix that could be wrong.

Does anybody have the current contact info for Rich Cross or Taylor Blair (or vice-a-versa Blair Taylor)?

Thanks again for the help!

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Need help with an M1841 MS rifle

Hallo!

No, the hammer screw should have a simple slot.

It will depend upon which version you ultimately decide on. The "original" unaltered M1841 block rear sigth was simply inserted into the dovetail, and the front brass blade (5/16 long) was braized into a shallow slot.
Beyond that, the alterations varied with some of the long range rear sights being braized to the barrel, some being set into a dovetail and screwed. And the Colt version just widened the dovetail to accomodate the inserted Colt
M1855 revolving rifle rear sight.

Cross is more of maker or supplier than a business and does not have a website or contact info as far as I know. His rear sight line and lock plates are usually available from S & S Firearms or Lodgewood for example.
They also sell the M1855 front sights, M1855 bayonet lugs, and the short upper barrel band/nose caps needed for some of the alteration versions.

Blair:

http://www.customizedcwguns.com/

Curt