Richmond Style Trousers

[lukegilly13]

I've been looking into replacing my RD trousers and I've ran into a snag that I cannot get through...
Has anyone been lucky enough to be able to examine any original RD trousers close enough to determine anything about the main side seam construction? My wonder is this...was it common to have major seams completed by machine and details completed by hand...or is this a reenactor/vendor means of saving production time/cost? What are the other benefits to having the details done by hand? On the contrast side....were most trousers issued from Richmond entirely hand sewn....as this would take a great deal more time and man power than cranking them out by machine....unless there was an issue maybe with availability of manpower? If they were handsewn, were the seams flat felled....run or backstitched...and should the stitches per inch be about 5-7?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Richmond Style Trousers

Hallo!

"My wonder is this...was it common to have major seams completed by machine and details completed by hand...or is this a reenactor/vendor means of saving production time/cost? What are the other benefits to having the details done by hand? On the contrast side....were most trousers issued from Richmond entirely hand sewn....as this would take a great deal more time and man power than cranking them out by machine....unless there was an issue maybe with availability of manpower?"

Given the caveat of the scarcity of surviving Richmond Depot items as compared to the numbers made...

IMHO...

In brief and to over-generalize...

After the "commutation" system did not work that well, the Confederates used the "arsenal" system of using local "seamstresses" or sewers to assemble depot/arsenal pre-packaged "kits."
Just like the Federals, depending upon what was personally available to that woman or household would determine whether a machine or hands did the bulk of the work (and that being within the realm of what a Period sewing machine could or could not do.)

And when it comes to hand-sewn work, the skill, experience, and time constraints of the sewer were reflected in the finished product (and within the limits of what was acceptable to the inspector at the time).

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt

[Slouch]

Re: Richmond Style Trousers

I have not seen or heard of any Richmond style trousers that were machine sewn. If you want to be 100% sure your trousers are 100% correct, go with hand sewing.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Richmond Style Trousers

Hallo!

"If you want to be 100% sure your trousers are 100% correct, go with hand sewing."

I would disagree...

"If you want to be 100% sure your trousers are 100% correct, go with..." copying the surviving trousers you are copying. That will tend to insure, assure, and ensure that the surviving trousers you are copying have been copied.

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt
Dr. Phil's Life Law No. 1 Mess

[PaulJ]

Re: Richmond Style Trousers

Hi,
this link on Scott Hane's Richmond Depot website may be of interest:-

http://www.kabar44.com/researchSewingMachineDispatch.htm

Essentially they are adverts from the Richmond Daily Despatch (1860-65 - though 1863 is missing) with references to sewing machines.

E.g:-
"April 23, 1861

Patriotic women.
--The ladies of the Second Baptist Church and congregation met yesterday morning, and unanimously resolved to offer their services to the Governor, for the manufacture of military uniforms, bandages, lint, &c., and some of them to act as nurses, whenever and wherever required. They have a force sufficient, with the aid of the sewing machines owned by them, to make uniforms for a company of one hundred soldiers in twenty-four hours. An order will be given them to-morrow, for one hundred uniforms for one of the companies just organized in this city. All honor to these patriotic women. May their noble example be imitated by all the daughters of Virginia!"


On a related point, 2 of the 8 surviving Columbus Depot jackets (a surprising 25%) exhibit some machine stitching. Also the Bryan RD2 (at least - any others?) jacket exhibits some machine stitching. From Dan Wambaugh's website (ref the Bryan jacket):-

"Additionally while the lining is assembled completely by hand, the body shell is assembled by machine, with the finishing topstitching done likewise on the machine. This is an indicator of a mass-produced CS garment, with the shell likely being assembled in the depot, and the hand work of the lining being farmed out to locals or another department in the depot"

If we are prepared to accept that it is possible that trousers were manufactured at the same time as such jackets (as 'suits'), the answer is that some percentage of trousers will have been (partially) machine stitched - IMHO....

I note that Les Jensen's well known Company of Military Historians article does not mention the Bryan jacket's machine stitching - the question is are there other garments (e.g RD jackets) that exhibit machine stitching that many of us would assume are wholly hand-stitched?

[Slouch]

Re: Richmond Style Trousers

I agree that the garment one is reproducing should match the original garment. To my knowledge their are no "Richmond Depot" trousers that exhibit machine sewn seams. Therefore, when I sew a pair of these trousers, they are 100% machine sewn. With that said, even if their are a pair of trousers floating out there somewhere that are machine sewn, I would argue that they are in the minority, and that a person portraying a common soldier of the ANV should copy the most common examples.

While I am not advocating that no machines were used in "Richmond Depot" clothing, in my opinion it is safe to say that more garmets were hand sewn than were machine.

I believe it boils down to personal choice. I would never scorn someone because they had trousers with machine sewn seams. Perhaps I would if the topsticking was machine ;). Most important to me is the material, pattern, and visable stitching. To each their own.

Happy Holidays!

Mike

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Richmond Style Trousers

I agree that the garment one is reproducing should match the original garment. To my knowledge their are no "Richmond Depot" trousers that exhibit machine sewn seams. Therefore, when I sew a pair of these trousers, they are 100% machine sewn.

Did you mean to say "Hand Sewn"?

With that said, even if their are a pair of trousers floating out there somewhere that are machine sewn, I would argue that they are in the minority, and that a person portraying a common soldier of the ANV should copy the most common examples.

While I am not advocating that no machines were used in "Richmond Depot" clothing, in my opinion it is safe to say that more garmets were hand sewn than were machine.

I believe it boils down to personal choice. I would never scorn someone because they had trousers with machine sewn seams. Perhaps I would if the topsticking was machine ;). Most important to me is the material, pattern, and visable stitching. To each their own.

Yes and no. I am not familiar with enough surviving "Richmond Depot" trousers to make a statement one way or the other. The only documented RD trousers I know of are blue, interestingly enough, I don't know to what extent they were hand/machine sewn. Most trousers were probably worn to rags after the war!

However, keep in mind that machines were used quite a bit in constructing garments during the war. There is a documented RD jacket that is machine sewn as much as anything could be machine sewn back then! Also, remember that surviving garments represent only a subfraction of a fraction of a percent of garments produced during the war, so we will never really know how many/frequently/often machines may or may not have been used. We can only guess based on secondary information (such as what is described on Scott Hanes' site).

[lukegilly13]

Re: Richmond Style Trousers

Is it safe to say here that this is a gray area....and either way could be correct?
Did machine work in ANV issue jackets get more common as the war went on? In other words...is it more common for RDIII's to be machined sewn than RD II's (as I understand there really are no "RDI's" in existance)?

[Virginia Rifle]

Re: Richmond Style Trousers

Yes maybe, but as long, as I know the machines of this time only could make line stitches. So buttonholes had of course to be hand sewn, and I also think the pocketts and some vuluable points on the codpiece. But especially the long straight seams, if they used machines, they will have done this by machine, because no hand can compete against them.

[Slouch]

Re: Richmond Style Trousers

Did you mean to say "Hand Sewn"?

oops, yes I did. Ironic typo.

As I stated above, MY personal choice is hand sewing. Honestly, their are bigger issues with many peoples kits then machine sewing! I would take a company of guys dressed in machine sewn uniforms made from good materials and patterns than a company of guys wearing hand sewn garments from inferior materials and patterns.

Jensen's theory is that most original garmets are probably the "last issued" to that individual. I believe this theory to have great merit. This would mean that most original RD jackets were made later in the war. Because our sample size is small, and theoretically the samples were from the later period of the war, it would be difficult to determine if the percentage of machine sewn garmets increased over the duration of the war.

[FloridaConscript]

Re: Richmond Style Trousers

There is a RDII in the relic room in Cola (eng army cloth) that has some machine work on it, if I recall correctly.

[TobiasJones]

Re: Richmond Style Trousers

Here are a few quotes for folks to chew on a bit. My interpretation of the situation is that the garments made by 3,000 people have probably 3,000 slight differences in the attachment of the pieces among them. And while there were obviously (read through every ad/article from the Richmond Daily Dispatch on richmonddepot.com=mucho knowledge) sewing machines in the city and commonwealth during the war and were in use for war production around the state as evidenced by the articles.

Personally, I see it both ways. Sewing Machines were in use at the time, however, not all sewing needs could be done by these machines, so there might be a blend of machine/hand sewing. However, machines were not the cheapest item, so I picture many women sitting in their small houses/apartments in Richmond sewing by hand as fast as they can so they can so they might make a livelihood for themselves during hard-times, not to mention, some individuals may prefer to hand sew for various reasons (i.e. love of the old world, hating change, clinging to the known...).

Three quotes from Les Jensen's article A Survey of Confederate Central Government Quartermaster Issue Jackets:

"A limited number of tailors in each manufactory cut out the pieces of each uniform. The pieces were bundled, and with the necessary trim, buttons and thread, were issued to seamstresses who sewed them together and were paid by the completed piece."

In Atlanta in 1863, there were "20 tailors," and "about 3,000 seamstresses in Atlanta did the actual sewing in their homes." and "The Richmond Manufactory was similar in size and scope."

"...At no time did the Quartermaster General detail to any of the depots exactly how the jackets were to be made. Thus, materials, cut, number of buttons, pockets and the presence or absence of trim were determined by each depot on its own, and probably changed as circumstances dictated."

From the Richmond Daily Dispatch (as accessed on richmonddepot.com):

July 10, 1861
Local Matters Ready for Action
"About three cents' worth of coarse cotton half a cent's worth of thread, one brass button, and two minutes use of a Wheeler & Wilson sewing-machine will furnish a soldier' haversack that sells in this city now for one dollar. Good profit."

May 17, 1861
Correspondence of the Richmond Dispatch.
Affairs at the University.
University of Virginia, May 14th, 1861.

"At the Court-House over 40 ladies are daily busy making uniforms, tents, knapsacks — in fact, everything that is needed for the army. They have nine sewing machines, and their zeal and industry are remarkable, even in the midst of the general excitement, when all vie with each other who can do the most for the Old Commonwealth."

Nov. 2, 1860
The Singer Sewing Machines.
"Singer's New Family Machines.
In order to place the very best Family Machines in the world within the reach of all, we have reduced our Letter A, or transverse Shuttle Machines, beautifully ornamented, to Fifty Dollars.

Singer's No. 1 and 2 Standard Shuttle Machines,
Both of very general application and capacity, and popular both in the family and the manufactory. Prices reduced respectively from $135 and $150 to $90 and $100."

Nov. 30, 1860
"We are glad to see that the other manufacturers of high-priced Sewing Machines are following the lead of the Wheeler & Wilson Company in the reduction of prices. Since the infringers have been compelled to pay the license to the owners of the patents, or stop making Machines, the legal manufacturers are enabled to reduce their prices so much that we may now expect that between the Loop stitches and Lock stitches, with all the Double Loops and Treble Locks, Young America will be clothed in garments that will stand the ravages of wash tubs, smoothing irons and times itself.

For the benefit of the interested, we give below a table showing the number of Machines made by the two principal companies. This is from a statement made under oath in the Howe Extension case, and can be relied on. From this table it will be seen that the Wheeler & Wilson Company had, in November, 1859, made and sold more than thirty-eight thousand Machines. Mr. Howe's books now show that they have made near 70,000 Machines."


June 26, 1861
Wheeler & Wilson.
"The reporter does not know Mr. Craige's sentiments, but he thinks he would bear being carried before the Mayor once more. Let the authorities of the Confederate Government confiscate the sewing machines owned by Wheeler & Wilson in Craige's keeping, as contraband of war."

Evan O'Dell

[lukegilly13]

Re: Richmond Style Trousers

Good post Evan! Seems to me like totally machine would not have been possible....totally hand was likely...as well as a combination.