I just recently recieved a Richmond grey frock coat from my mother in Richmond grey. I was exicited and all when I got it until I noticed something horrible on them. The buttons. They're "CSA" buttons. Now I was just remembering a buddy of mine telling me that these buttons were never used during the war. Another bubby of mine told that these were rare but yes they did use them. Were these "CSA" buttons ever used during the war or are they just another product of farbyness?
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My Frock Coats Buttons
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Re: My Frock Coats Buttons
Sir,
If memory serves me correctly, "CSA" buttons were rarely used and when they were, it was late in the war. Block letter buttons that signify a soldiers branch of service, ("I" for Infantry, "C" for Cavalry and "A" for Artillery") and some state buttons were the most common during the war.
Respectfully,
Pvt. Kirk
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Re: My Frock Coats Buttons
Does the make of said coat cite the original example from which it was copied as having CSA buttons?Marc A. Hermann
Liberty Rifles.
MOLLUS, New York Commandery.
Oliver Tilden Camp No 26, SUVCW.
In honor of Sgt. William H. Forrest, Co. K, 114th PA Vol. Infantry. Pvt. Emanuel Hermann, 45th PA Militia. Lt. George W. Hopkins & Capt. William K. Hopkins, Co. E, 7th PA Reserves. Pvt. Joseph A. Weckerly, 72nd PA Vol. Infantry (WIA June 29, 1862, d. March 23, 1866.) Pvt. Thomas Will, 21st PA Vol. Cavalry (WIA June 18, 1864, d. July 31, 1864.)
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Re: My Frock Coats Buttons
CSA buttons were used in various styles but they are not common. They got their reputation because for many years they were the only CS button available and everybody used them. Those that are dug are found in early to late war sites. Better choice would be eagle buttons or what ever the original coat had if you are sure the buttons on the coat are the original buttons.Jim Mayo
Portsmouth Rifles, Company G, 9th Va. Inf.
CW Show and Tell Site
http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/index.html
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Re: My Frock Coats Buttons
Information regarding the coat's history (what original coat was copied to create the repro. coat), usage (was said original coat used by a specific soldier and/or unit), and the vendor who produced the repro. would be helpful if this discussion is to go further. Thanks.
Bill Birney
Columbia Rifles
(at least as soon as I pay my dues again... It's January already!)William Birney
Columbia Rifles
"The OTB is made up of the dregs of humanity, the malcontents, the bit*#ers and moaners, the truth tellers, the rebellious, etc. In other words, the ones that make good soldiers when the firing starts or the marching gets tough. The $&#*$& is run by parade ground, paper collar soldiers, the ones that pee on themselves when a car backfires and would be better fit for counting beans and puffying up their own egos and kissing each others @$(#*$*..."
Thomas "Uncle Tom" Yearby, 20 March 2009
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Re: My Frock Coats Buttons
While researching uniform construction, content, etc etc at the M.O.C. the curator and I got into a lengthy discussion about buttons on Confederate uniforms. He basically concluded to me that for Confederate uniforms the commonality and usage if it had to be ranked would be (1 being the most common):
1. Federal Eagle Buttons "army buttons"
2. State Seal Buttons (VA, MD, etc)
3. Block I, A, C, buttons
But of course I agree with everyone else if the frock coat is based on an original what did the original have?Brandon English
"There is many a boy here today who looks on war as all glory, but, boys, it is all hell."--William T. Sherman
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Re: My Frock Coats Buttons
Strange that wooden or bone doesn't show up on that list....
Perhaps they are less durable and do not survive as well (during the war...i.e. they were lost/broken and replaced by the soldier, or they have decayed since).Luke Gilly
Breckinridge Greys
Lodge 661 F&AM
"May the grass grow long on the road to hell." --an Irish toast
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Re: My Frock Coats Buttons
Originally posted by lukegilly13 View PostStrange that wooden or bone doesn't show up on that list....
Perhaps they are less durable and do not survive as well (during the war...i.e. they were lost/broken and replaced by the soldier, or they have decayed since).Brandon English
"There is many a boy here today who looks on war as all glory, but, boys, it is all hell."--William T. Sherman
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Re: My Frock Coats Buttons
Hallo!
"General service" "CSA" buttons are found dug and non-dug, and range from
very nice three piece stamped English made ones to more "crude" solid CS made castings.
An issue with CS uniform buttons is the question as to whether the buttons
are extant to the uniform and not a post War replacements. Such as readded to replace those removed after the War for sentiment or for say
1890's or 1900's veteran functions.
IMHO, it is always good to try to look to the sewing on buttons to try to assess whether they are "original" to the garment.
Sometimes it is easy such as finding post War button back mark.
Yes, at any rate, as shared... "CSA" general service buttons became the "kiss of death" due to their being universally used in reenacting at one time.
Curt
(Remembering the indignation of Texas Brigade members who, arriving back in Texas in 1865, were met at the boat, by US Colored Troops with scissors to remove their buttons.)Curt Schmidt
In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt
-Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
-Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
-Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
-Vastly Ignorant
-Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.
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Re: My Frock Coats Buttons
There have been a goodly number of CSA buttons dug in some of the late War camps in the Trans-Mississippi, documented some years ago in Fred Adolphus' article in Military Collector & Historian on uniforms from the Houston Clothing Depot.
Post-war, it was illegal to display Confederate symbols -- to include identifiable Confederate States uniform buttons -- in public. Since their old uniform jackets were some of the few clothing items many veterans had, they replaced the buttons with generic civilian buttons, or covered the old Confederate buttons with cloth. A good number of original uniforms still display these cloth-covered buttons.
Bottom line, your CSA buttons are probably no worse than the "Richmond Gray" cloth for the coat.Tom Ezell
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Re: My Frock Coats Buttons
Originally posted by BrandonEnglish View PostWhile researching uniform construction, content, etc etc at the M.O.C. the curator and I got into a lengthy discussion about buttons on Confederate uniforms. He basically concluded to me that for Confederate uniforms the commonality and usage if it had to be ranked would be (1 being the most common):
1. Federal Eagle Buttons "army buttons"
2. State Seal Buttons (VA, MD, etc)
3. Block I, A, C, buttonsJim Mayo
Portsmouth Rifles, Company G, 9th Va. Inf.
CW Show and Tell Site
http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/index.html
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Re: My Frock Coats Buttons
The federal eagle buttons and the the wood buttons were my first choices. I thought it would look more authentic if I mix and match the buttons to give a "replaced" look.Christian Thomas,
The Salem Guard
Appalachian Possum Mess
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Re: My Frock Coats Buttons
Originally posted by Raven View PostThe federal eagle buttons and the the wood buttons were my first choices. I thought it would look more authentic if I mix and match the buttons to give a "replaced" look.
Sooo, you would have mixed and matched buttons on a new coat?
Does this seem logical?Jim Mayo
Portsmouth Rifles, Company G, 9th Va. Inf.
CW Show and Tell Site
http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/index.html
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