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My Frock Coats Buttons

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  • My Frock Coats Buttons

    I just recently recieved a Richmond grey frock coat from my mother in Richmond grey. I was exicited and all when I got it until I noticed something horrible on them. The buttons. They're "CSA" buttons. Now I was just remembering a buddy of mine telling me that these buttons were never used during the war. Another bubby of mine told that these were rare but yes they did use them. Were these "CSA" buttons ever used during the war or are they just another product of farbyness?
    Christian Thomas,
    The Salem Guard
    Appalachian Possum Mess

  • #2
    Re: My Frock Coats Buttons

    Sir,

    If memory serves me correctly, "CSA" buttons were rarely used and when they were, it was late in the war. Block letter buttons that signify a soldiers branch of service, ("I" for Infantry, "C" for Cavalry and "A" for Artillery") and some state buttons were the most common during the war.

    Respectfully,

    Pvt. Kirk

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: My Frock Coats Buttons

      You can easily replace your CSA buttons by using the Federal eagle button. Many original coats worn by Confederates have the eagle buttons, often referred to as "army" buttons by the wearers.
      Steve Sullivan

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: My Frock Coats Buttons

        Does the make of said coat cite the original example from which it was copied as having CSA buttons?
        Marc A. Hermann
        Liberty Rifles.
        MOLLUS, New York Commandery.
        Oliver Tilden Camp No 26, SUVCW.


        In honor of Sgt. William H. Forrest, Co. K, 114th PA Vol. Infantry. Pvt. Emanuel Hermann, 45th PA Militia. Lt. George W. Hopkins & Capt. William K. Hopkins, Co. E, 7th PA Reserves. Pvt. Joseph A. Weckerly, 72nd PA Vol. Infantry (WIA June 29, 1862, d. March 23, 1866.) Pvt. Thomas Will, 21st PA Vol. Cavalry (WIA June 18, 1864, d. July 31, 1864.)

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: My Frock Coats Buttons

          CSA buttons were used in various styles but they are not common. They got their reputation because for many years they were the only CS button available and everybody used them. Those that are dug are found in early to late war sites. Better choice would be eagle buttons or what ever the original coat had if you are sure the buttons on the coat are the original buttons.
          Jim Mayo
          Portsmouth Rifles, Company G, 9th Va. Inf.

          CW Show and Tell Site
          http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/index.html

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: My Frock Coats Buttons

            Information regarding the coat's history (what original coat was copied to create the repro. coat), usage (was said original coat used by a specific soldier and/or unit), and the vendor who produced the repro. would be helpful if this discussion is to go further. Thanks.

            Bill Birney
            Columbia Rifles
            (at least as soon as I pay my dues again... It's January already!)
            William Birney
            Columbia Rifles

            "The OTB is made up of the dregs of humanity, the malcontents, the bit*#ers and moaners, the truth tellers, the rebellious, etc. In other words, the ones that make good soldiers when the firing starts or the marching gets tough. The $&#*$& is run by parade ground, paper collar soldiers, the ones that pee on themselves when a car backfires and would be better fit for counting beans and puffying up their own egos and kissing each others @$(#*$*..."
            Thomas "Uncle Tom" Yearby, 20 March 2009

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: My Frock Coats Buttons

              While researching uniform construction, content, etc etc at the M.O.C. the curator and I got into a lengthy discussion about buttons on Confederate uniforms. He basically concluded to me that for Confederate uniforms the commonality and usage if it had to be ranked would be (1 being the most common):

              1. Federal Eagle Buttons "army buttons"
              2. State Seal Buttons (VA, MD, etc)
              3. Block I, A, C, buttons

              But of course I agree with everyone else if the frock coat is based on an original what did the original have?
              Brandon English

              "There is many a boy here today who looks on war as all glory, but, boys, it is all hell."--William T. Sherman

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: My Frock Coats Buttons

                Strange that wooden or bone doesn't show up on that list....
                Perhaps they are less durable and do not survive as well (during the war...i.e. they were lost/broken and replaced by the soldier, or they have decayed since).
                Luke Gilly
                Breckinridge Greys
                Lodge 661 F&AM


                "May the grass grow long on the road to hell." --an Irish toast

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: My Frock Coats Buttons

                  Hi,

                  While there are originals with wood buttons, there are lot more (at least that I have seen) with eagles, state, or block buttons. The button type would also have alot to do with the theater of war you are portraying.

                  Andrew
                  Andrew Kasmar

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: My Frock Coats Buttons

                    Originally posted by lukegilly13 View Post
                    Strange that wooden or bone doesn't show up on that list....
                    Perhaps they are less durable and do not survive as well (during the war...i.e. they were lost/broken and replaced by the soldier, or they have decayed since).
                    There is also this to take into consideration, with the laws after the war, how many guys took off their state seal buttons and what not because they couldn't legally wear them and threw bone, wood, cloth covered buttons on there? I certainly didn't look at every jacket in the MOC but the majority do have brass of some sort instead of the "natural" buttons.
                    Brandon English

                    "There is many a boy here today who looks on war as all glory, but, boys, it is all hell."--William T. Sherman

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: My Frock Coats Buttons

                      Hallo!

                      "General service" "CSA" buttons are found dug and non-dug, and range from
                      very nice three piece stamped English made ones to more "crude" solid CS made castings.

                      An issue with CS uniform buttons is the question as to whether the buttons
                      are extant to the uniform and not a post War replacements. Such as readded to replace those removed after the War for sentiment or for say
                      1890's or 1900's veteran functions.
                      IMHO, it is always good to try to look to the sewing on buttons to try to assess whether they are "original" to the garment.

                      Sometimes it is easy such as finding post War button back mark.

                      Yes, at any rate, as shared... "CSA" general service buttons became the "kiss of death" due to their being universally used in reenacting at one time.

                      Curt

                      (Remembering the indignation of Texas Brigade members who, arriving back in Texas in 1865, were met at the boat, by US Colored Troops with scissors to remove their buttons.)
                      Curt Schmidt
                      In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

                      -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
                      -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
                      -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
                      -Vastly Ignorant
                      -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: My Frock Coats Buttons

                        There have been a goodly number of CSA buttons dug in some of the late War camps in the Trans-Mississippi, documented some years ago in Fred Adolphus' article in Military Collector & Historian on uniforms from the Houston Clothing Depot.

                        Post-war, it was illegal to display Confederate symbols -- to include identifiable Confederate States uniform buttons -- in public. Since their old uniform jackets were some of the few clothing items many veterans had, they replaced the buttons with generic civilian buttons, or covered the old Confederate buttons with cloth. A good number of original uniforms still display these cloth-covered buttons.

                        Bottom line, your CSA buttons are probably no worse than the "Richmond Gray" cloth for the coat.
                        Tom Ezell

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: My Frock Coats Buttons

                          Originally posted by BrandonEnglish View Post
                          While researching uniform construction, content, etc etc at the M.O.C. the curator and I got into a lengthy discussion about buttons on Confederate uniforms. He basically concluded to me that for Confederate uniforms the commonality and usage if it had to be ranked would be (1 being the most common):

                          1. Federal Eagle Buttons "army buttons"
                          2. State Seal Buttons (VA, MD, etc)
                          3. Block I, A, C, buttons
                          I would have to agree with the number 1 choice for the duration of the war. However the time period would have to be taken into consideration for the commonality of 2 and 3. From mid war on the recovery of dug buttons would indicate that the block buttons became more common than state buttons. From my experience around Petersburg hunting areas from Five Forks to the Howlett Line, about 3 or 4 block buttons are dug for every state button. SC buttons seem to be the most prevelant followed by NC sunbursts in these areas. Maryland buttons are somewhat scarce but I did dig my one and only near Hatchers Run.
                          Jim Mayo
                          Portsmouth Rifles, Company G, 9th Va. Inf.

                          CW Show and Tell Site
                          http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/index.html

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: My Frock Coats Buttons

                            The federal eagle buttons and the the wood buttons were my first choices. I thought it would look more authentic if I mix and match the buttons to give a "replaced" look.
                            Christian Thomas,
                            The Salem Guard
                            Appalachian Possum Mess

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: My Frock Coats Buttons

                              Originally posted by Raven View Post
                              The federal eagle buttons and the the wood buttons were my first choices. I thought it would look more authentic if I mix and match the buttons to give a "replaced" look.

                              Sooo, you would have mixed and matched buttons on a new coat?

                              Does this seem logical?
                              Jim Mayo
                              Portsmouth Rifles, Company G, 9th Va. Inf.

                              CW Show and Tell Site
                              http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/index.html

                              Comment

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