How should it fit?

[musketbal]

I feel really dumb asking this question, but then again its a good possibility. I have always portrayed confederate Maryland Inf. I recently purchased a excellent J.T. Martin sack coat from an approved vendor.
The coat ordered was a 42, however, it is a little snug on me. My question is how should it fit? I know many soldiers issued sack coats had to trade or find another way to get one that would come as close as possible to fit. I know this isn't a beauty contest (Boy thats the truth here any way) but authenticity. Any help would be greatly appreciated.Keep in mind I have only ordered the jacket. The trousers are from the confederate impression in the picture.

[gfchhdgf]

Re: How should it fit?

One thing I always do is look at pictures of actual soldiers in the garment I'm wearing, then I look at myself, then the pictures, then myself and so on and so forth and try to make sure I am able to replicate that look. This is especially helpful when making different clothing articles. As far as a sack coat goes, it shouldn't be a form fitting item and should be a looser garment. However, I have seen some soldiers that look as if they were about to bust out of their coats while others look like little kids playing dress up with dads suit. While these are two extremes I would try to fall somewhere in the middle. Again, check out how actual soldiers looked in their sack coats and shoot for that.

[Indianabugles]

Re: How should it fit?

Our Federal QM who has a stock of these for new recruits always gets a close(ish) loose fit and reminds us they were not made to measure. They were made in "Standard" sizes.
He says these sizes were simply known as .
Too Big
Too Small
and "You have got to be joking!"

There is probably some truth in this.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: How should it fit?

Hallo!

In brief and to over-generalize...

It looks ot be a size to small.

HOWEVER...

The Federal suppyl system was not based upon a man's size or in regard to a size, but what he was handed out of the Size 1-4 bundle in line.
The man then had threee choices:

1. Wear it as it is.
2. Trade up or down sizes with another lad so both had a better fit.
3. Tailor or alter it yourself for a better fit, or have a tailor or sopmeone with skills do it for you.

As a result of this, when looking at original images, one will fit lads with garments that appear to fit, appear too small and tight or gapping, or too big and "swimming."

Over the years, in some of my impressions I have ordered to my actual size, 1-2 sizes too large, and 1-2 sizes too small to portray the issuance system.

Curt

[unclefrank]

Re: How should it fit?

I agree with it's too small. I would error on the side of being too big. Those things tend to shrink when the get wet, and you will really look life Charlie Chaplin, with a coat that will really be unconfortable.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: How should it fit?

Hallo!



;) :)

Curt

[unclefrank]

Re: How should it fit?

If one of those buttons were to pop, sombody might have been injured! :)

[WoodenNutmeg]

Re: How should it fit?

Given A) the size of the coat and B) the the average size of a soldier during the war, I would say that the jacket fits you perfectly; so long as you can move in it, I'd say you're golden. Look at any of the vast assortment of images showing Union troops in their blouses and this will offer up any type of variation. For one to say, "Woah! That's way too tight," or, "Woah! That's way too big," offers little assistance when it's put up against the evidence.

[toptimlrd]

Re: How should it fit?

One thing to be aware of also is that often a moder size is larger than the size indicates (i.e. a 44 may be closer to a 46 or 48). You usually want to have someone measure you to get your actual size.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: How should it fit?

Hallo!

Ah... the Wonderful and Whacky World of Modern Size and Sizing.

Quite true.

As well as such moderns problems as size concept such as whether a "Size 42" is just a Size 42 or rather is intended for a 42 inch chest. Or whether that, OR is a "size 42-44" or just a "42 inch actual measurement chest."

"Sizing and fit" among different makers may vary from one to the next. I have jackets from different makers that are "supposed to be" all "Size 4's"
(42) but one may fit like a Size 40, another maker's a Size 42, and another a Size 44. (By actual tape measurement, I have a 42 1/2 chest inflated... I think I should wear a mythical "Size 43.")
Same for my Size 2 or Size 3 trousers.

And last but not least, CW Period patterns are done from a diffrent body morphology that many/most Moderns have. Plus, the "fit and feel" of an authentic garment even at the right size can be different than the fit and feel of modern clothes of the same "size."

IMHO, over the years of back order waits, and sizing issues, I have now gone to a different model. I will:

1. If I want the CW Period historical experience of having to "make do" with what I was issued (and not having the modern equivalent of being able to just trade up or down with another lad for a better fit), I will buy an already made item.

or

2. If I want the CW historical experience of winning the Luck of the Draw and getting my "size..." I will buy "off the rack" such as at S & S in Gettysburg-buying the "fit" I desire without regard for the size label.

Curt

[DocReynolds]

Re: How should it fit?

Well, it may be a bit small...I'd go bigger myself...but if you look at period images, they are often snug (not as snug as the one in this thread!)...The soldiers when tyey wanted to clean a really filthy coat, would soak it or boil it and probably wring it out...wool in that case shrinks, so the first rule is there ain't no rule..the 2nd rule is..there is no 2nd rule...

Pete Bedrossian
150th NY/3rd NC

[Homespun Ma]

Re: How should it fit?

From the 1861 Army Regulations


For Enlisted Men
1454. The uniform coat for all enlisted foot men, shall be a single-breasted frock of dark blue cloth, made without plaits, with a skirt extending one-half the distance from the top of the hip to the bend of the knee; one row of nine buttons on the breast, placed at equal distances; stand-up collar, to rise no higher than to permit the chin to turn freely over it, to hook in front at the bottom and then to slope up and backward at an angle of thirty degrees on each side; cuffs pointed according to pattern, and to button with two small buttons at the under seam; collar and cuffs edged with a cord or welt of cloth as follows, to wit: Scarlet for Artillery; sky-blue for Infantry; yellow for Engineers; crimson for Ordnance and Hospital stewards. On each shoulder a metallic scale according to pattern; narrow lining for skirt of the coat of the same color and material as the coat; pockets in the folds of the skirts with one button at each hip to range with the lowest buttons on the breast; no buttons at the ends of the pockets.

1455. All Enlisted Men of the Cavalry and Light Artillery shall wear a uniform jacket of dark blue cloth, with one row of twelve small buttons on the breast placed at equal distances; stand-up collar to rise no higher than to permit the chin to turn freely over it, to hook in front at the bottom, and to slope the same as the coat-collar; on the collar, on each side, two blind button-holes of lace, three-eights of an inch wide, one small button on the button-hole, lower button-hole extending back four inches, upper button-hole three and a half inches; top button and front ends of collar bound with lace three-eights of an inch wide, and a strip of the same extending down the front and around the whole lower edge of the jacket; the back seam laced with the same, and on the cuff a point of the same shape as that on the coat, but formed of the lace; jacket to extend to the waist, and to be lined with white flannel; two small buttons at the under seam of the cuff, as on the coat cuff; one hook and eye at the bottom of the collar; color of lace (worsted), yellow for Cavalry, and scarlet for Light Artillery.

1456. For all Musicians--the same as for other enlisted men of their respective corps, with the addition of a facing of lace three-eighths of an inch wide on the front of the coat or jacket, made in the following manner: bars of three-eighths of an inch worsted lace placed on a line with each button six and one-half inches wide at the bottom, and thence gradually expanding upward to the last button, counting from the waist up, and contracting from thence to the bottom of the collar, where it will be six and one-half inches wide, with a strip of the same lace following the bars at their outer extremity--the whole presenting something of what is called the herring-bone form; the color of the lace facing to correspond with the color of the trimming of the corps.

1457. For Fatigue Purposes--a sack coat of dark blue flannel extending half-way down the thigh, and made loose, without sleeve or body lining, falling collar, inside pocket on the left side, four coat buttons down the front.

1458. For Recruits--the sack coat will be made with sleeves and body lining, the latter of flannel.

1459. On all occasions of duty, except fatigue, and when out of quarters, the coat or jacket shall be buttoned and hooked at the collar.


Your coat looks a bit too short and tight to be comfortable. I would think that a longer coat would serve you better in cold weather as well as keep your trousers from wearing out as quickly.


Lauren Ehas