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Barnett Enfield question, proof marks…

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  • Barnett Enfield question, proof marks…

    I recently acquired a Barnett contract Enfield as a restoration project. Lock is marked Barnett, London, with “Tower” under the crown.

    The barrel is void of any proof marks (like the typical 25 x 25 / 24 x 24 type markings). Nothing is visible above the stock.

    Upon removing the barrel from the stock, Barnett and something is clearly stamped, and a few numbers of some sort under the breech area.

    I have just never seen an original without any obvious proof marks of this nature. But I am only now trying to get familiar with Enfields and the proof house requirements for contracts, etc.

    Anyone familiar with how Barnett rifle muskets was typically marked?

    Thanks
    Ben Grant

    Founder and sole member of the Funnel Cake Mess

  • #2
    Re: Barnett Enfield question, proof marks…

    Capt. Grant,

    The man you should ask is Tim Prince. He is at the Charleston Civil War show this weekend, but should be available this evening, or tomorrow. You'll find him listed in these forums, or you can e-mail him at:

    equaliser@earthlink.net

    Semper Fidelis
    Brian Hicks
    Widows' Sons Mess

    Known lately to associate with the WIG and the Armory Guards

    "He's a good enough fellow... but I fear he may be another Alcibiades."

    “Every man ever got a statue made of him was one kinda sumbitch or another. It ain’t about you. It’s about what THEY need.”CAPTAIN MALCOLM REYNOLDS

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Barnett Enfield question, proof marks…

      Ben,

      Barnett P53 arms are London proofed.

      See example below:
      Attached Files
      Mark Latham

      "Mon centre cède, impossible de me mouvoir, situation excellente, j'attaque." ~Ferdinand Foch

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Barnett Enfield question, proof marks…

        Hallo!

        "Barnett" was a "London commercial firm," and along with London Armoury, are one of the most commonly found of the London-made companies' guns.

        In brief and to over-generalize... and there are variations...

        A London-made gun barrel should carry the stamp marks of the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers' commercial proofs. These are different stamps than the Birmingham commercial proof-marks. These vary a bit in style.
        One will find from top to bottom, at the breech:

        Definitive Proof of a crown over a stylized "CP"

        View Mark of a crown over a "V"

        Provisional Proof of a rampant lion over a "G"

        Sometimes there is a gauge mark of "24" stamped between the Provisional Proof and the View Mark. While the other stamps are read looking down aligned from breech ot muzzle, the gauge stamp is read looking left-to-right (meaning sideways).

        Underneath a barrel will often be found the barrel maker's name, the initials of an inspector or sub-inspector, and "fitting" marks that appear as small multiple "slashes" made by the edge of a chisel or screwdriver such as "\\\"

        Curt
        Curt Schmidt
        In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

        -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
        -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
        -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
        -Vastly Ignorant
        -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Barnett Enfield question, proof marks…

          Gents

          Thanks for the insights. No time tonight, but I will post some pics early in the week. This is void of anything above the stock.

          Mr. Hicks, Semper Fi. Hope this finds you well.
          Ben Grant

          Founder and sole member of the Funnel Cake Mess

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Barnett Enfield question, proof marks…

            Sir,

            Retirement is suiting me very well. I hope you'll eventually enjoy the same.

            Semper Fidelis
            Brian Hicks
            Widows' Sons Mess

            Known lately to associate with the WIG and the Armory Guards

            "He's a good enough fellow... but I fear he may be another Alcibiades."

            “Every man ever got a statue made of him was one kinda sumbitch or another. It ain’t about you. It’s about what THEY need.”CAPTAIN MALCOLM REYNOLDS

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Barnett Enfield question, proof marks…

              Here are some pics of the barrel. What is interesting is the barrel seems to have some very light finish on it. Not bluing per say, but it almost feels like an ever so thin layer of a shellac or acrylic. The stock and brass fittings all have a light coat of something on them. Not sure if it was someone’s idea of preserving it in recent times or a long time ago…





              The last pic appears to say “something BARREL Co”, but as you can see it is worn on unevenly struck.

              No other marks. The lock plate has no year on it.



              Also, the bands are the style where the top is slightly flat. I cannot for the life of me recall which pattern of band that is, or if that is correct for a wartime import.

              Regards

              Ben
              Ben Grant

              Founder and sole member of the Funnel Cake Mess

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Barnett Enfield question, proof marks…

                My enfield was defarbed by James River Armory. Perhaps these pictures may help.
                Brent Conner
                Brent Conner

                We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
                Benjamin Franklin

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Barnett Enfield question, proof marks…

                  From the pics provided, I would say that barrel has been sanded and refinished.
                  Mike Pearson
                  Michael Pearson

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Barnett Enfield question, proof marks…

                    Hello,

                    From your pictures I would echo what Mike said above, the tube has bee "re-finished". The tube appears to have been turned around the breech area before the "breech lump" and then filed.

                    The lock plate indicates that the arm is a "second" grade Barnett. Or one that follows the pattern of the typical hand made guns of the Commercial trade, rather than the Enfield or London Armory "machine made" arms.

                    Regards,
                    Mark Latham

                    "Mon centre cède, impossible de me mouvoir, situation excellente, j'attaque." ~Ferdinand Foch

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Barnett Enfield question, proof marks…

                      Sorry for the first series of poor quality of photos. These should be better. Ihope.
                      Brent Conner
                      Brent Conner

                      We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
                      Benjamin Franklin

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Barnett Enfield question, proof marks…

                        Originally posted by M.Latham View Post
                        Hello,

                        The lock plate indicates that the arm is a "second" grade Barnett. Or one that follows the pattern of the typical hand made guns of the Commercial trade, rather than the Enfield or London Armory "machine made" arms.

                        Regards,
                        What is the significance of the crown and tower on the back of the lock? I have never seen this marking on a London gun.
                        Jim Mayo
                        Portsmouth Rifles, Company G, 9th Va. Inf.

                        CW Show and Tell Site
                        http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/index.html

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Barnett Enfield question, proof marks…

                          Hallo!

                          Barnett did use the crown over "TOWER."
                          I had three such "Barnett's."

                          Curt
                          Curt Schmidt
                          In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

                          -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
                          -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
                          -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
                          -Vastly Ignorant
                          -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Barnett Enfield question, proof marks…

                            Here's my Barnett. I really don't know too much about it,and the lockplate stamping seems atypical. The barrel has Birmingham proofs on it,too.



                            Doug Price
                            Attached Files

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Barnett Enfield question, proof marks…

                              Jim,

                              Doug has posted an excellent picture of the faux "machine made" Barnett.

                              Made to appear as if it were the same quality of the London Armory or Enfield made arms, notice the lack of engraving along the edge of the lock or hammer.

                              Regards,
                              Last edited by M.Latham; 01-27-2009, 04:51 PM. Reason: forgot text
                              Mark Latham

                              "Mon centre cède, impossible de me mouvoir, situation excellente, j'attaque." ~Ferdinand Foch

                              Comment

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