Infantry Ordinance Sgt

[Fenianboy]

I know that the regs call for crimson chevrons with a star device.Is there any photo evidence of an Infantryman in this role utilizing the Branch light blue and/or standard chevrons?

[Foust JW]

Re: Infantry Ordinance Sgt

Seeing as most of the photos made in the period were restricted to B&W, I rather doubt much will turn up using that particular line of research.


Joel Foust

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Infantry Ordinance Sgt

Hallo!

Ordnance Sergeants are "complicated."

Kaustz writes:

246. ORDNANCE SERGEANT.—Each military post
may have an ordnance sergeant, whose duty it is
to take charge of all the surplus ordnance at the
post. He is enlisted for the position, and belongs
to the post, and is not removed when the troops are
changed. His pay is twenty-two dollars per month,
one ration, and allowance for clothing. Ordnance
sergeants do not belong to the Ordnance Department,
but to the non-commissioned staff, unattached,
of the regiment or post.

131. The Secretary of War selects from the sergeants
of the line of the army, who may have faithfully served
eight years (four years in the grade of non-commissioned
officer), as many ordnance sergeants as the service may
require, not exceeding one to each military post. "

In brief and to over-generalize...

They are not NUG anestablished fixture of Federal field regiments, let alone company NCO staff as some reenactors like to make them.
HOWEVER, what volunteer units may have done, was what some volunteer units may have done.

There are a very few pictures of sergeants wearing the "ordnance star and chevrons," that appear to be light in color and not the dark photographic effect of how red/crimson gets sensitized.

Some posit/argue that these are indeed "branch of service" infantry blue chevrons and stars indicating say an infantry regiment's posting.
Others posit/argue that we do not know the context of the chevrons and stars- their possibly being a state or particular militia type unit position even to the point of being unrelated to "ordnance."

In any event, IMHO, the presense of infantry blue star-and-chevron wearing "Ordnance Sergeants" in companies is an overly done reenactorism.

Curt

(On a totally unrelated note, who wore green stars-and-chevrons, as a "company armourer/ordnance sergeant" in the N-SSA for many years... ;) :) )

[Fenianboy]

Re: Infantry Ordinance Sgt

Curt, Thanks for taking the time to answer.I have seen stars also designating the Color Sgt as well as a photo of a corporal( I think his name was Ulmer) of the 15th NJ with a star deviceYou nailed it a difficult issue.Thanks again.

[Johan Steele]

Re: Infantry Ordinance Sgt

I have seen a period frock coat w/ blue sgt stripes and a single red star above. Upon questioning the collector he did not know the exact period or provenance of the frock but was able to put it at between 1855-1875. His suspicion was that it was actually a GAR coat. There was a name pinned on the inside of the jacket that came to a man in an Iowa Regt who was wounded and invalided out. The problem was that ythe man was not a Sgt at all but a Corporal which only added more questions and pretty well convinced him that it was a GAR coat.

As Mr Schmidt was kind enough to detail add the use of the star over sgt stripes to indicate a color sgt was common enough that you have to question whether the photo details a Ord Sgt or a Color Sgt.

That said I've just been promoted to the Ord Sgt for my unit and am trying to figure out how to most accuratly portray the Ord Sgt for a MN Regt... I know the 4th MN VI had one at Allatoona and at Ft Abercrombie but other than that more research will tell.

[john duffer]

Re: Infantry Ordinance Sgt

http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/1866uniform/sgtod.jpg

Try this link.

[ajroscoe]

Re: Infantry Ordinance Sgt

Thanks to the work that the historian of the 24th Michigan put in to his book, we know that the 24th had various sergeants assigned as "ordnance sergeant" at different times. However, these were always men already on the Non-Commissioned Staff who were given it as an extra role, a collateral duty as we say in the military today. Usually, it was the Commissary Sergeant, Quartermaster Sergeant, or the Sergeant Major who filled in as the regiment's ordnance sergeant. I have never seen any information that they wore anything other than the regulated badges of rank for their appointed positions to indicate this collateral duty.

[burke69nyv]

Re: Infantry Ordinance Sgt

Bud,
The NPS Soldiers & Sailors system has its faults but does list detail on some areas. For most Infantry regiments, there is no ordnance sergeant listed on the regimental staff. However, your unit, the 13th NJ lists two. William Cunningham and Garretson Gardner (deserted 10/30/62). Cunningham went on to become an officer on the 13th staff. The HDS system lists both as being 1st Sgts.....Go figure!

[Will Eichler]

Re: Infantry Ordinance Sgt

Bud,

I don't have it in front of me right now but you should be able to do a web search for a color wheel that was shot with period processes. That wheel is a standard set of colors. By shooting it with period processes one can see how the different processes treat colors. My memory is that yellow comes out quite dark in CDV, but I'm going totally from memory here so please double check me.

The reason I bring this up it to help you in your photo reserach. You should, using this wheel, be able to get in a range of color of different chevrons. That will start to send you toward the answer you are looking for.

Going from memory, try Virginia's Veranda on the ragger soldier website. I think the info may be there.

Good luck!

Will

[Fenianboy]

Re: Infantry Ordinance Sgt

Will, Thanks for the info re:colors! I had know prior knowledge about this and will prove to be most helpful. I must admit that the earlier entry regarding all the photos being black and white was no revelation!?! Thanks to you and all who took the time to provide helpful insight on this topic.