Makers of Arms

[rbruno]

I thought I would pose another question while the artillery and arms discussion is still out there. My other question is around what the names of guns were called during the war. For instance, in Harry's post, the guns are very clearly named Enfield, Austrian, Lorenz, etc. I have also seen ordnance for the 1st MD that state Spencer, yes believe it or not, and Sharps which I am assuming is capture stores issued by Richmond. My question is I have also seen reports that just say "rifle" or "58 cal Carbine" which started all this to begin with my. My question is would these items that were not named be the Richmond Rifle and Carbine produced on the equipment captured at Harpers Ferry? I am having a hard time finding out exactly with 58 cal carbine they were sent. Has anyone seen a report that names a Richmond Rifle, Carbine or Richmond Sharps?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Makers of Arms

Hallo!

That can be messy due to the laxness of the Period process- meaning, say...

.58 ammunition can be more important for what it is moreso that for what it is going to be used in. For example, it was not always recorded whether a requisition for .58 ammo was for M1855, M1861, SM1861, or M1863 RM's.

However, there is an interesting survivor, an invoice from May 30, 1863 from the Richmond Arsenal to Pickett's Division at Hannover Junction for:

10 boxes consisting of 200 "Richmond Rifles, 50 cones, 50 wipers, 50 screw drivers, 5 spring vises, 10 arm chests."

And as an aside, CS ordnance folk were also lax about Sharps carbines. "Sharps" also was used to describe the Robinson and C.S made Sharps copies.

Curt

[csuniforms]

Re: Makers of Arms

Dont forget that the CS ordnance Department also produced the Richmond Carbine; .58 humpback lock cutdown for their horse troopers.
CSuniforms
Tom Arliskas

[stri volunteer]

Re: Makers of Arms

Mounted Infantry (2 band) rifle?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Makers of Arms

Hallo!

I think he was referring to the .58 "carbine" with the nominal 25 inch barrel produced after November 1862.

As found in the Richmond Armory ledgers for August 1864, between March
31, and June 30, 1864 the 5th VA Cavalry received (in part) 130 "Richmond Rifles .58 Cal." and 21 "Richmond Carbine Cal 58" with 17,115 cartridges Cal.
.58."

Due to a stock shortage, Richmond Armory started making (200) "Rifles, Short" referring to the 33 inch barrel version logged in as "Short Rifles from Old Parts" in July of 1864 and another 200 in August.

Curt

[Bill]

Re: Makers of Arms

Curt,

Didn't the Richmond Armory also cut down M-1842's for cavalry use?

[rbruno]

Re: Makers of Arms

I was thinking the 58 cal humback Richmond Carbine. Again, I am not sure. It sounds like the "names" were not very clear, which is essentially the question. It looks like I still need to keep digging. The receipt I am looking at is from Feb. 64 a little before Curt's post. The Sharps receipt is in June of 64. I wasn't sure if Richmond produced the Richmond Sharps throughout the war. I understand the Robinson came first, but wasn't sure how long they were produced. It appears, as with everything Confederate, that some times the Richmond products were named in receipts which send me back to the drawing board. Besides the official records of the individual officers in a unit, what is the next source for finding good ordnance records? Still digging for info.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Makers of Arms

Hallo!

"Didn't the Richmond Armory also cut down M-1842's for cavalry use?"

Yes, initially they assembled HF/recycled battlefield parts into M1842 muskets, but starting in September of 1862 they made the .69 carbine/musketoon.
Due to a stock shortage and Burton fussing over payng $1.50 for a new stock, the pressing need for cavalry weapons saw end damaged stocks being used to make musketons (same problem that led to the .58 carbine version).
(Later carbine stocks would come from RM "seconds" from Macon.)

In an production inventory dated October 12, 1863, it lists 2791 Rifle Carbines made including those assembled from Old Parts between October 1861 and November 30 1863 which gets messied with a January 6, 1864 letter saying 2764 were made from October 1, 1862 to September 30, 1863.

Samuel Robinson made the Confederate copy of the Sharps carbine starting in 1862 (making about 1900), but was bought out by the CS government in March of 1863 who made them for roughly another year (making another roughly 3000).

But yes, laxness and the absence/loss of records is a curse.
The details we often seek were usually not important at the time. An M1861
Norwich contract "Springfield" is just another .58 musket at times because the ordnance folks were more concerned about what ammunition it needed, not who made it.

Curt