Don Troiani prints as reference

[musketbal]

I have several of Don Troiani's books and prints.He is one of my favorites as an historical painter of the Civil War. I was very happy when I was able to purchase the "Band of Brothers" print.
I study his works in an attempt to gain knowlege for use in my reenacting portrail. Several have mentioned on this board,practices long in usage,pertaining to the wearing of equipment not to be as correct as most believed to have been originaly in use. Two items come to mind.First, as seen in most paintings and drawlings, soldiers are seen having their tin cup being fastened to the outside of the haversack.To me it would make sense to have the cup placed in a location that would not clank jingle while on the march.
The second, many prints from artist show that blankets were strapped to the top of the soldier's knapsack. It has been stated on several occations that greatcoats were attached to the top of the knapsack and the blanket was stored in between the knapsacks closure.
What do you guys and gals think is the "most" authentic way to carry the two mentioned equipment items. Your input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
A. Brent Conner

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Don Troiani prints as reference

Hallo!

IMHO...

When striving for a more historical-based, "authentic" impression-

"Art" and "Illustration" should never (use of the universal noted) be used for documentation as one rarely/ever/never knows what research and documentation the artist or illustrator put into the art of illustration.
Or what the "motivation" of the artist was such as evoking romantic or reenacting images and thoughts to appeal to a certain segment of the CW community. Or, illustrating a researched and documented factual depiction of actual units in specific time and place.
Or a combination of both.

IMHO still...

One's personally chosen Mental Picture of what one sees oneself doing and where one sees oneself fitting in influences and drives impressions and activities.
If one strives for a Believeable Image for oneself as well as one's pards, an dif one strives to look more like the Civil War soldiers (or civilians) described in period accounts and captured in period images and not so much modern-day reenactors- then the use of researched and documented period references as well as period images (taken in the field) are "safer" than basing impressions off art or relying on what research the artist may (or may not have used).

But, art is a powerful and seductive motivator for some lads. The 18th century artist Robert Griffing's works have induced a whole generation of "Native American" impressions who look exactly like the images in Griffing's paintings and prints.

As an aside, I love most all of Don Troiani's works not only for the style but also for the added details taken from surviving artifacts and his using models that "fit" a certain "Civil War" look and morphology. I once had a house full of his prints before running out of wall space.
While I never had, I might would have, could have, used some of his images for "ideas" in crafting the "look" of my US or Cs impressions- but only when his depictions matched research and documentation- AND I was choosing from a number of "historically correct" options or choices.
However, I never did, choosing to look to Period photographs and Period accounts intead.

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt

[DougCooper]

Re: Don Troiani prints as reference

Brent - you answered your own question in part ("makes sense"). To add to Curt's great advice about using art as a model for wearing specific things specific ways (photos are always better):

Greatcoats were generally issued in the late Fall and generally packed up in the Spring. Ergo, for most of the campaigning season, soldiers had no great coat to strap ontop of a knapsack, so the question is moot. When issued, Federal regs called for doing just that when not wearing the great coat, since the dang thing is very difficult to fit inside the knapsack. The blanket will fit inside the knapsack (federal doublebag) and may or may not depending on the type carried (CS).

There are a number of period drawings of soldiers wearing cups in the strap of a haversack, and a few photos. Common sense indicates that if you can fit it inside the haversack, you make less noise, don't risk it's loss, don't bang it into other items and can own a cup without a closed handle (common enough). The only thing you sacrifice is ease of use, since digging a cup out of the havesack takes a bit longer than unhooking the strap. Additionally, you may not have room in the haversack for the cup, especially after having just been issued rations (though many of us just cram food inside the cup inside the haversack, solving most of the space problem).

I favor going with the solution that makes sense to the soldier on the march...which I imagine the real soldiers did themselves...and sounds like you are doing as well.

I prize Don Troiani for capturing the moment very well - the valor, sacrifice, look and feel of the conflict. Has he missed a few things? Yes - in fact he has actually reissued a few paintings that correct errors and ommissions, such as the First Minn at Gettysburg (only carried one flag), Jackson at Chancellorsville (plank vs dirt road), etc. Most artists would not care, but a Troiani or a Rocco do, much to our benefit.

[csuniforms]

Re: Don Troiani prints as reference-YES

Hello, I do know for a fact that Don Troiani does a ton of research for his paintings and many times, will put off doing a subject when he does not have all the material he feels he needs for accuracy.
I know several research people who do the work for him, along with using original items in his collection.--
I would say you would be safe to copy a look of an individual in one of his paintings. Of course, you should compliment your impression with more research on a particular unit, accoutrements, etc.

Tom Arliskas
CSuniforms

[CompanyWag]

Re: Don Troiani prints as reference

My advice...don't blindly trust another's research, even if it is very good research. That becomes second hand information and can be subject to personal bias. Too often historians, authors, artists and reenactors of great reputation have their opinions regarded as gospel. This information gets passed down to others as The Word.

Take the time to view primary resources for yourself...if for no other reason than to confirm information that others have been feeding you. Or better, to answer questions that others have not yet adequately addressed. It is quite enjoyable and immensely rewarding. It allows you to speak with authority.

Paul McKee

[Virginia Mescher]

Re: Don Troiani prints as reference

My advice...don't blindly trust another's research, even if it is very good research. That becomes second hand information and can be subject to personal bias. Too often historians, authors, artists and reenactors of great reputation have their opinions regarded as gospel. This information gets passed down to others as The Word.

Take the time to view primary resources for yourself...if for no other reason than to confirm information that others have been feeding you. Or better, to answer questions that others have not yet adequately addressed. It is quite enjoyable and immensely rewarding. It allows you to speak with authority.

Paul McKee

You have hit the nail on the head. It is what I've said on this forum and others. Even though it might seem like reinventing the wheel, doing your own primary source research is so rewarding and there is always new information to be discovered and shared.

[Illinois Rebel]

Re: Don Troiani prints as reference

An observation wanting clarification...

In Troianis' Print "Towards the Angle", Confederate General Richard Garnett does not appear to have dark hair, a beard or be wearing a Kepi. I wonder where he got that imagine of Garnett for the Painting?

Did anyone else see this?

Respectfully,

Michael Collins

[Mgreer]

Re: Don Troiani prints as reference

My advice...don't blindly trust another's research, even if it is very good research. That becomes second hand information and can be subject to personal bias. Too often historians, authors, artists and reenactors of great reputation have their opinions regarded as gospel. This information gets passed down to others as The Word.

Take the time to view primary resources for yourself...if for no other reason than to confirm information that others have been feeding you. Or better, to answer questions that others have not yet adequately addressed. It is quite enjoyable and immensely rewarding. It allows you to speak with authority.

Paul McKee

I must agree with Paul. Although I do not have a firm anser...I have a picturee by Troiani that states that the 14th RI heavy Colord Art. wore light art. uniforms, but in photographs some members are wearing heavy Art frocks. So they may have changed some time during the war. So do jnot accept every this as gospel even though i do be leve that Mr. Troiani does a great deal of research before compleating a painting.

Another example is that I read in one book about CW uniforms (the name escapes me but i'll repost with the name), that many federal soldiers tossed their great coats first chance they got. But the best advise is to reasearch multiple sources and if you can find primary documents to suport your findings.

[Mgreer]

Re: Don Troiani prints as reference

An observation wanting clarification...

In Troianis' Print "Towards the Angle", Confederate General Richard Garnett does not appear to have dark hair, a beard or be wearing a Kepi. I wonder where he got that imagine of Garnett for the Painting?

Did anyone else see this?

Respectfully,

Michael Collins

Just playing Devils advocate here i have no oppinion on this matter but who said that the man on the hore is supose to be Garnett? There is another man in the background who is getting got off his horse that could be him or neither man could be Garnett.

What do you think?

[musketbal]

Re: Don Troiani prints as reference

I bought the "Toward the Angle" print for my father when it was first released.Any way, in a recent article in America's Civil War Magazine there is an article on a photo just discovered in Maryland of Gen. Garrnett. Its original origins suggest the owner was connected to Gen. Garrnett. According to the article Gen. Richard (Dick) Garrnett's photo shown many times in history and other literature is actually his cousin Robert Seldon Garrnett and further states that R. Garrnett's mother even stated some time in the early 1900s that she was aware of the mis-identification. The writer says that Garrnetts mother described him as having light brown or blond hair and no beard. Evidently it has been transcribed from the back of the picture stating the following; Brig. Gen. Richard Garrnett, who died at Gettysburg.
It is possible that Don Troiani may have gotten it right after all. There are several neat articles in the above mentioned magazine for May, 2009.
I don't get my impression from prints and artist conceptions as a primary source, however, I do know that there are several exceptional painters who do a tremendous amount of research. You guys have been a GREAT deal of help and information which has been invaluable in my attempt to give authenticity to what my recent impression will become. Again thanks guys and gals for your esteemed knowledge.

Brent Conner

[Dan Munson]

Re: Don Troiani prints as reference

Doug Cooper stated above:

Greatcoats were generally issued in the late Fall and generally packed up in the Spring. Ergo, for most of the campaigning season, soldiers had no great coat to strap ontop of a knapsack, so the question is moot. When issued, Federal regs called for doing just that when not wearing the great coat, since the dang thing is very difficult to fit inside the knapsack. The blanket will fit inside the knapsack (federal doublebag) and may or may not depending on the type carried (CS).

I guess I have to take issue here. In fact, Federal regulations specified the opposite regarding the carrying of greatcoats. In barracks (not a situation most reenactors ever get to re-create), the greatcoat was supposed to be rolled, strapped with those "coat straps" and stored in the shelf at the foot of the soldier's bunk:

"96. The knapsack of each man will be placed on the lower shelf of his bunk, at its foot, packed with his effects, and ready to be slung; the great-coat on the same shelf, rolled and strapped; the coat, folded inside out, and placed under the knapsack; the cap on the second or upper shelf; and the boots well cleaned." (1861 Revised Army Regulations)

When carried, the greatcoat was supposed to be folded, not rolled, and carried (like sandwhich meat) between the inner and outer flaps of the knapsack:

"1576. Knapsack--of painted canvas, according to pattern now issued by Quartermaster's Department; the great-coat, when carried, to be neatly folded, not rolled, and covered by the outer flap of the knapsack." (1861 Revised Army Regulations)

Folded more or less "square," the greatcoat is bulky, as Doug says, but it does fit within the knapsack as the Regs suggest. That is, unless the soldier is trying to carry a lot more property than what the Army gave him (in which case you may be in for a Si Klegg "as he went in" moment when trying to buckle the knapsack closed. At our annual "2nd California Volunteer Infantry" garrison event at Fort Tejon State Hist. Park, we follow the "reg" way of packing greatcoats and rarely have any problems. The blankets get rolled and strapped top-side.

This does not, however, directly answer the questioner's query as to how the greatcoat was actually carried by most Civil War federals in the field. As with many other things, the niceties of strict Army regs may have given way to more "practical" methods. And as others have noted above, soldiers usuall contrived (with or without Army help) to be without greatcoats for the warmer months of the year.