cw color guard

[tommy varner]

I am looking for links on the CW Color Guard, concerning battle formations and on parade..including morning and evening colors, with particular concern with the dress of the color sgt in both a one and two flag color guard..rsp tommy varner

[Alamo Guard]

Re: cw color guard

May I suggest a god book, "parade, Inspection and basic Evolution of the Infantry Battalion, by Col., Dominic J. Dal Bello? Really good stuff, will answer alot of your questions.
The color guard was a nine man detail mostly led by an ensign. There was no special dres per say except the color Sgt.
As far as carrying the colors two flags were for five companies or more. Under five no colors or one flag.
I know Im leaving something out and am goona get correct on something so just get Dom's excelent book and it should clear up a few questions.
I recently had the honor of being at Port Hudson with the full 9 man color guard. Alot diffrent and alot of fun. As a color Corp., my number one job was of course protecting the flag. We were in the deep woods when under light fire when some bozo did a banzai charge on the colors. I looked at my file mate and said you shoot him. My partner replied naw you shoot him, he aint worth the powder. Finally the Color Sgt piped in will someone please shoot him? Finally someone popped a cap and he did his "slow death scene" for us, as we looked on digust.
Afterwards we thought next time we shall just wait till he gets close enough for us to capture and he can carry our packs up and down the hills of Port Hudson for us.

[tommy varner]

Re: cw color guard

Thanks for the help. I am trying learn the correct way handling the colors as a color sgt..and also the duties of the corps. i have picked up a fair amount of information here and there...but i want to look and represent the colors in an authentic manner...once again thanks RSP Tommy Varner

May I suggest a god book, "parade, Inspection and basic Evolution of the Infantry Battalion, by Col., Dominic J. Dal Bello? Really good stuff, will answer alot of your questions.
The color guard was a nine man detail mostly led by an ensign. There was no special dres per say except the color Sgt.
As far as carrying the colors two flags were for five companies or more. Under five no colors or one flag.
I know Im leaving something out and am goona get correct on something so just get Dom's excelent book and it should clear up a few questions.
I recently had the honor of being at Port Hudson with the full 9 man color guard. Alot diffrent and alot of fun. As a color Corp., my number one job was of course protecting the flag. We were in the deep woods when under light fire when some bozo did a banzai charge on the colors. I looked at my file mate and said you shoot him. My partner replied naw you shoot him, he aint worth the powder. Finally the Color Sgt piped in will someone please shoot him? Finally someone popped a cap and he did his "slow death scene" for us, as we looked on digust.
Afterwards we thought next time we shall just wait till he gets close enough for us to capture and he can carry our packs up and down the hills of Port Hudson for us.

[ThehosGendar]

Re: cw color guard

50th Pennsylvania Infantry, July 1865, William Morris Smith, photographer:

[Yellowhammer]

Re: cw color guard

Dusty,

I'm afraid you have a little bad info in here.

"The color guard was a nine man detail mostly led by an ensign."

That is partially true. The Confederates resurrected the rank of ensign for color bearers late in the war. Previously, the Color Guard consisted of one Sgt and eight corporals for a one color Guard or two Sgts and seven corporals for a two color Guard. The Federal army never had the rank of ensign during the CW.

"As far as carrying the colors two flags were for five companies or more. Under five no colors or one flag."

I'm not sure your source for this. I have to disagree with you there as the number of colors changes over the course of the war and there are exceptions even until the end. Early in the war, individual companies had colors. As a rule, the Confederate regiments generally carried one color and the Federal regiments carried two. There are, of course, exceptions to this (especially early in the war) but that is generally the case. A notable exception is the 39th (?) NY aka the Garibaldi Guard who carried US, regimental, Italian and Hungarian colors from time to time. Bottom line: I don't agree with your rule of thumb there.

Many years ago, there was an excellent article in Camp Chase Gazette that not only described the composition of the Color Guard and it's duties, but cross-referenced the major period manuals including Casey's, Hardee's and Scotts. In all things related to drill and courtesy, I prefer to go to the original sources. I'll look up the title and author of that article and post it tomorrow.

[JohnTaylorCW]

Re: cw color guard

"As far as carrying the colors two flags were for five companies or more. Under five no colors or one flag.".

He might be thinking of Hardees (38) or Casey(45) which both basicaly say
' In battalions with less than five companies present, there will be no color guard, and no display of colors, except it may be at reviews." Nothing there about one flag.

Many years ago, there was an excellent article in Camp Chase Gazette that not only described the composition of the Color Guard and it's duties, but cross-referenced the major period manuals including Casey's, Hardee's and Scotts. In all things related to drill and courtesy, I prefer to go to the original sources. I'll look up the title and author of that article and post it tomorrow.

Are you by chance thinking of Elmer Woodward's "The Correct, Complete, Perfect, Revised and Improved School of the Color Guard." ? It WAS on the 47th Virginia site, which seems to have recently disappeared. I've been attempting to track down another on-line source.

John T

[tommy varner]

Re: cw color guard

Jason a very interesting picture. i am guessing that they posed for the picture,since i notice the color guard not wearing any accoutraments except for belts. looks like the left color bearer is wearing the color harness..do you have any idea what the colors on each side the national colors are. one i assume is the regimental colors...thanks for info and reply..Rsp Tommy Varner

50th Pennsylvania Infantry, July 1865, William Morris Smith, photographer:

[tommy varner]

Re: cw color guard

To all thanks for the reply's, John T...i already have a copy of that i found it under http://47thvirginia.com/pages/articles/colorguard.html i found it about 7 months ago and printed a copy of it..but it still does not answer all my questions...but has a lot of good information that i have found useful..thanks RSP Tommy Varner

He might be thinking of Hardees (38) or Casey(45) which both basicaly say
' In battalions with less than five companies present, there will be no color guard, and no display of colors, except it may be at reviews." Nothing there about one flag.




Are you by chance thinking of Elmer Woodward's "The Correct, Complete, Perfect, Revised and Improved School of the Color Guard." ? It WAS on the 47th Virginia site, which seems to have recently disappeared. I've been attempting to track down another on-line source.

John T

[Grapeshot]

Re: cw color guard

I am looking for links on the CW Color Guard, concerning battle formations and on parade..including morning and evening colors, with particular concern with the dress of the color sgt in both a one and two flag color guard..rsp tommy varner

Tommy, I recommend you consider reading Gordon Rhea's new book, "Carrying the Flag," which is a fascinating story of the First South Carolina's color bearer, Charles Whilden, during the Wilderness/Spotsylvania campaigns. Mr. Rhea does a great job of describing life in a Confederate color company, including how the captain chose the order of color bearers. I also enjoyed the description of winter camp along the Rapidan in 1863.

As you know, the manuals of the period instruct us on how things should have been done, but accounts such as Gordon Rhea's put it all into perspective.

Kevin Kilcommons

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: cw color guard

Mr. Varner.

If you are interested, e-mail me at ColumbiaRifles@aol.com and I'll forward a PDF file containing an article entitled, "A Mini-manual for Color Guards" from the forthcoming "Columbia Rifles Research Compendium 2nd Edition"

[markj]

Re: cw color guard

Greetings,

The three flags carried by the 50th PVI color guard are likely an issue national color from one of the QM depots, a QM-issue blue regimental color, and a unique national color carrying the Pennsylvania coat of arms in the canton. The odds are reasonably good that one or more of these flags have survived and are discussed in Richard Sauers' "Advance the Colors!" (2 vols.):

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0818200901/cyberhaven00/002-4578618-3227238

Another, 1862 image of the 50th PVI in parade formation at Beaufort SC can be seen here:

http://712educators.about.com/blcwphmilsold5.htm

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[justthemiller]

Re: cw color guard

Hey Mark,

About the colors. I have both sets of "Advance the Colors" and it seems that many of the Pa. units at the end of the war purchased a second National Color (usually from the Philadelphia Depot) to have when they marched down Pennsylvania Avenue in the Grand Review or even just to bring a snazzy new flag home with them. Most of these flags were unmarked and were only used for perhaps a month or two till the unit in question mustered out. That is what you see in the 1st image is basically a regimental color, a Pennsylvania version of a national color and a new, un-used national color. Take care.

James T. Miller

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: cw color guard

Mark,

Do you mean the 51st PVI? If so here's an essay that could shed a touch of light on the topic:

http://www.columbiarifles.org/Antietam03/A2003%20website%20-%20history%20essay%20on%2051st%20PA.htm

[markj]

Re: cw color guard

Greetings,

Indeed, it seems that, at least here in Indiana, a number of units did receive colors upon mustering out. This may explain their relatively good appearance and lack of battle honors. However, some of these flags are heavily damaged probably due to the unfortunate habit of veterans cutting off souvenir pieces of the flags at their reunions. Until around 1881, flags were allowed to be "checked out" from the Indiana State Library collection by veterans organizations. However, many of them came back so heavily damaged that the State Librarian put his foot down and thereafter mostly refused to loan colors else "nothing would be left of them in five years."

This isn't to mention the fact that it's pretty clear that a number of regimental flags were never turned in to the State after the war or were only turned in reluctantly. This appears to have happened, for example, to a color of the 25th Indiana--as I recall, it came up for sale some years ago and is now in a private collection. Literally hundreds of company colors were presented during the war and only a small fraction of them have either survived or have surfaced in various collections.

Ditto for captured Confederate flags--I have personally documented several of these captured at Mill Springs KY and Fort Donelson that made their way back to Indiana and were never turned in to the State. At least one of them still survives today and is held by descendants of an Hoosier soldier.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Rhinevalleylad]

Re: cw color guard

Mr. Varner.

If you are interested, e-mail me at ColumbiaRifles@aol.com and I'll forward a PDF file containing an article entitled, "A Mini-manual for Color Guards" from the forthcoming "Columbia Rifles Research Compendium 2nd Edition"

Greetings from a spring warm (Rhine-)Valley.
I appriciate your offer.
Please send the pdf-file to the following: i.rolletter@stk.hessen.de

regards

Ingo rolletter
I do have the first edition. Do you know when the 2nd edition of the CRRC will be on the market??