Federal Gear In the Confederate Ranks

[just4fun63]

Re: Federal Gear In the Confederate Ranks

In reading "Johnny Reb & Billy Yank" by Alexander Hunter chapter 21 "hot time around Richmond" mentions this. "The plunder left by out friend Billy Yank was calculated to gladden the heart of every poverty-stricken Johnny,.............Nearly every man in the brigade furnished himself with these new arms of approved pattern and accoutrements,and there was hardly a soldiger in Longstreet's division who did not obtain a complete outfit of clothes, besides knapsacks............"

That seems to indcate that US equipment was used a lot. I think he was commenting on the battle of Gains Mill. I'm new at this so I hope I'm am citing this correctly.

[Poor Private]

Re: Federal Gear In the Confederate Ranks

In "The Bold Cavaliers" by Dee Alexander Brown
About Morgans Raiders, and the 2nd Kentucky:
They had learned that a trooper consisted of one man, one hat, one Jacket, one shirt, one pair of pants,one pair of drawers, one pair of socks, one pair of boots(preferably captured Federal jack-boots tied with a stout leather string above the knee).
Also at one point when the troops asked about overcoats, and horses Morgan pointed to a group of captured federal cavalry and stated "there is your horses and overcoats". He also issuded an order that all federal overcaots be dyed black.
There are many more citations of Morgans use of captured federal equipment, weapons and horses, as well as civilian clothing and weapons( shotguns, squirrel rifles ). This from Shilo thru the Indiana and Kentucky raids, and acting as Kirby Smith's cavalry.

[Private Glover]

Re: Federal Gear In the Confederate Ranks

If there are so many opinions and references supporting this practice then why are some confeds dressed down by others at events for representing this apparently common practice?

I think it has to do with the possibility that if too many reenactors took the opportunity to display individualism, units would begin to look more like a mish-mash than military units. If one person gets to show too much creativity than the next guy might as well, with the bottom of this possible slippery slope looking more like a bad SCA event* than a good CW reenactment.

That's just my opinion though. I could be wrong.








*No offense intended towards SCA enthusiasts.

[PogueMahone]

Re: Federal Gear In the Confederate Ranks

Mel,

I'll take it one step further and say I think it is a long-term backlash from the cph community against what they've endured in farb and mainstream cultures, i.e., to switch from US to CS, or vice versa, only requires changing the jacket. By requiring a more "pure" CS impression, they create a visual difference between themselves and the motley crew of blue pants and grey jackets. It is also the reason so many of the cph have so much emphasis on being "campaigner". The stripped down look and feel is in direct contradiction to the iron, canvas and cooler culture so apparent at lesser events.

Recent threads on this very forum reflect the closed mind of the cph, or those that want to be cph, from accepting that, occassionally, tents, furniture, enemy clothing, and women in camp may actually be appropriate. As Charles says, the context is important. Blanket assumptions and broad generalisms only serve to undermine the effort to make history a part of the hobby.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Federal Gear In the Confederate Ranks

Joe,

Some of this may be as simple as noticing folks who haven't spent a whole bunch of time using the prioritized gear checklists for events, too. Other have ten years or more developing and using this fine tool.

[csabugler]

Re: Federal Gear In the Confederate Ranks

I'll take it one step further and say I think it is a long-term backlash from the cph community against what they've endured in farb and mainstream cultures, i.e., to switch from US to CS, or vice versa, only requires changing the jacket

Shoot, for some of them, their fed impression is just taking off their bad confederate jacket.

In my opinion, the abuse of bad impressions using fed gear is the primary source of our "prejudice" against even appropriate documented usage. It's stereotyping on our part I suppose.
Things have gotten better over the years, believe it or not. The absolutely rediculous was commonplace 17 years ago or so when I started.

[DougCooper]

Re: Federal Gear In the Confederate Ranks

I'll take it one step further and say I think it is a long-term backlash from the cph community against what they've endured in farb and mainstream cultures, i.e., to switch from US to CS, or vice versa, only requires changing the jacket

Shoot, for some of them, their fed impression is just taking off their bad confederate jacket.

In my opinion, the abuse of bad impressions using fed gear is the primary source of our "prejudice" against even appropriate documented usage. It's stereotyping on our part I suppose.
Things have gotten better over the years, believe it or not. The absolutely rediculous was commonplace 17 years ago or so when I started.

Pat is exactly right. It is still partly true today in the mainstream world - the level of documentation and research to justify the practice of just changing jackets foten still goes back to Harpers Ferry, Fredericksburg and other overblown examples, irrespective of the scenario.

But as Pat says, there is a world of difference today even at the larger events. All it takes is research and leadership...and not focusing solely on numbers. At Corinth in 2005, entire units refused to attend when the broad uniform standards were limited on the CS side to CS uniforms (no federal issue trousers) even after we squsahed every excuse, undocumented example, lined up great deals on CS pants, etc. But we still had over 1000 rebs show in the right uniform, live under flies and in the open in the woods.

In our events, the research is ongoing and we use it to alter many of the standards to allow the documented practice, a very healthy thing. Its not unusual now to see parts of federal uniforms and equipment, in correct ratios, at our events. Haven't seen anyone dye a fed overcoat yet but I know somebody out there is planning it :D

[FloridaConscript]

Re: Federal Gear In the Confederate Ranks

Haven't seen anyone dye a fed overcoat yet but I know somebody out there is planning it :D[/QUOTE]


If an approved vendor here on the beloved AC were to undertake such a venture, their 1st sell would be yours truly.

Brother Smotherman, I agree with you as well. Often times, it is a knee jerk reaction of "when I was farb, everything I did was wrong, therefore i will never wear US trousers when doing a johnny impression".
There are times when that is correct, other times not so much. For folks doing a Johnny impression at G burg, fed knapsacks, blankets, haversacks, contract shirts, and even a pair of trousers would be in line with the historical evidence.

[Gallinipper]

Re: Federal Gear In the Confederate Ranks

Haven't seen anyone dye a fed overcoat yet but I know somebody out there is planning it

Oak galls. It's all about oak galls. Hopefully we'll get more input from a pard who once conducted just this type of experiment?

Rich Croxton

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Federal Gear In the Confederate Ranks

The North Carolina Museum of History has the incredibly Alfred May grouping in it's collection. May served with the 61st North Carolina Infantry which was raised in Wilmington in August, 1862. The 61st first saw action at Kinston, NC, and served later at Morris and Sullivan Islands, Battery Wagner, Drewry's Bluff, Cold Harbor, the siege of Petersburg, and finally took part in Bentonville.

I had a lot of great discussions with Seth Harr about this grouping and he said that May's equipment was predominantly Federal. For instance, his knapsack, haversack (made from a second Fed. knapsack), canteens, shelter half, and I believe some of his accouterments are Federal.

http://ncmuseumofhistory.org/MOH/vfp...ABASE=66037215,

There is also another Federal knapsack that was altered by a confederate to be used as a haversack. This one is in Lansing, MI, and was picked up by a western cavalryman.

As far as clothing goes, one good account that I'm familiar with comes from a post-war memoir. Sgt. Wyman White, Co. F 2nd U.S. Sharpshooters, noted that he came upon the body of a dead Confederate officer. He needed cleaning patches for his rifle and began peeling back the wet outer layers of the officer's clothing. White noted that he was wearing several suits of clothes (he thought to give the officer a more bulky appearance) including Federal army trousers.

[Gallinipper]

Re: Federal Gear In the Confederate Ranks

Brian, I was fortunate enough to see some of the May items up close at the NC MOH a few years ago. What an amazing find! The "haversack" was indeed made from part of a Fed doublebag. There was a shelter half still inside the other, intact double bag. One of the canteens had been ornately decorated (post-war by a relative?) also.

Here's another neat topic for discussion.... Did they ever determine the provenance of his shell jacket? It was thought to perhaps be of the "Charleston Depot" type (from Jensen's CMH article), but the collar on one- the determining- side was so badly destroyed, prior to restoration, that it was not definitively identifiable?

Thanks for sharing that!

Rich Croxton

[Bob 125th NYSVI]

Re: Federal Gear In the Confederate Ranks

When you read the letters to home from the boys in the 125th NY (one of the regiments surrendered at Harper's Ferry) while they were at Camp Douglas (the parole camp) it makes it pretty clear that Jackson's boys stripped them of almost everything they weren't wearing that wasn't of a personal nature (letters from home etal).

Makes sense the 125th hadn't even been mustered in a month when surrendered so their equipment was brand new.

So if you were doing Sharpsburg as a reb from Jackson's command having US issued equipment could be very realistic. However by the time the same soldier got to Gettysburg probably everything except for the weapons had been worn out and replaced.

However for at least weapons the reverse could also be true. Grant rearmed a number of regiments from weapons captured at Vicksburg. I can't see the National troops using much of anything else they may have captured as their supply situation was generally better than the CSA's.

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Federal Gear In the Confederate Ranks

Below are excerpts from a recorded post-war talk given by 2nd Lt. Dyer Pettijohn, Company A (Minn.) 2nd U.S. Sharpshooters. Pettijohn was in charge of a 12-man scouting party in the area of the Bushman Farm/Warfield Ridge at Gettysburg when nearly everyone was captured. His accounts of prison life are very interesting. As far as clothing goes, the "trading" started happening immediately after he and his men were taken to the rear.

"The first rebels I came in contact with were very sociable and friendly set of fellows, in fact entirely too much so for my good. The men of Lee's army seemed to me to be poorly equipped, particularly as to clothing. The first salutation I received was to trade hats, and "No" would not be taken as an answer."

"The fourth of July, 1863, was celebrated by our marching on towards Richmond, and a sorry looking outfit we prisoners of war were - Some without hats, others without coats and still others whose uniforms were a mixture of the blue, gray and butternut, indicating quick trades and small profits for the "Yanks."

"The farewell of the Imboden guards was a little peculiar. The night before the morning on which they left, they passed through the camps of sleeping Yankee prisoners and relieved them of what few hats they had been lucky enough to escape with up to that time. Some of our boys had been foolish enough to take off their boots and all such persons were left bootless. The boots had gone to keep company with the hats."

"...some rebel soldiers came through the cars and relieved us of what few blankets we had managed to retain up to that time..."

"One major got away by calmly picking up a hammer...The guards thought he was a workman and they allowed him to go...What little clothing we did have was mostly of the same material and color as that of the guards, and when we kept our mouths shut we could not be distinguished from the rebels themselves."

The last quote has little to do with the topic at hand but I thought it was pretty cool anyway!

http://pettijohn.net/chapter3.html#dyer

[Bill Fean]

Re: Federal Gear In the Confederate Ranks

I do not have the book handy, but I remember a quote from a civilian after Gettysburg saying something to the effect " All of our clothes were gone and left in their place were dirty rags of rebel uniforms".


Bill Fean

[Moose]

Re: Federal Gear In the Confederate Ranks

Everything comes down to context. Charles is 100% correct. When, where, what unit, what campaign? One must try to take reenactor politics and trends and throw them away when it comes to accuracy of the impression. To overgenerlize, there is almost a time and place for everything. So rather then "throw a up-side-down US belt plate" in for varitey, do it when the time and place call for such an action.

Let history dictate what you wear, not everyone else, because hell, they might be wrong:tounge_sm

Cheers,