First Person Restrictions - Why Bother?

[NewHopeChurch]

Re: First Person restrictions - why bother?

After reading the continued discussion here, I feel there may be some more misunderstanding. Perhaps I didn't put enough emphasis on the actions of the participants, and instead went on too long about the converstations. Like Brian said, the actions are another story.

To me, the subcategories of reenacting that deal with authentic experiences fall under the "first person" genre, and that includes no modern equipment/acting as if you're actually under fire while the enemy is upon you.

That may explain some of the confusion, and why some people seem to have issues with my post. (?)

Or should I just shut up? :-p

[PogueMahone]

Re: First Person restrictions - why bother?

Scottie,

I don't think anyone is taking issue with your post or your comments. You have created a discussion about a failure within the cph hobby which should be addressed.

Frankly, I think that most that cross the fence into the cph end are expecting a deeply immersive experience and are surprised to find that the art of conversation is not as well represented as the correct underwear within the ranks at any given event. So many cph types spend thousands on gear and can't keep their mouth shut long enough to make a positive impression on others. Just as I said before, you can dress a feller up, but you can't make him think right.

[trippcor]

Re: First Person restrictions - why bother?

I agree with Joe. This is a good discussion on a topic that consistantly seems to rise at events. Personally I think many of us are intimidated by the thought of 1st person.

We have some idea that we must invest a hugh amount of time into personal research on all topics associated with that time or we do the opposite. We think we have to know about all the facts of a certain campaign. In either case many end up doing what John Cleaveland call "Bad Reenacting Theater". We just over act.

First person really is not all that hard. Keep it simple. Even if you have not taken the time to do any in depth research or have a first person name, you can still do first person. All it takes is focusing on your current experience. You may be tired and hot. Well complain about that. You may think your officers or NCOs are idiots. Talk about that. Soldier's especially like to complain. They always have and always will. Complaining and asking questions about what is happening are all get ways to stay in first person. If you can add some specifics about home and hearth great. It will add to the experience.

Having said all that, I am probably as bad as anyone with breaking first person especially if I hear others doing it as well. Like Eric said events are the only times I get to see some of my friends in the hobby. So I will take moments to catch up with them. That still doesn't make it right.

Oh the headlights at the end of the night fight were due to a slight injury we had on the CS side. We had a gentlemen who rolled his ankle pretty badly and wanted to go have a doctor look at it.

[Horace]

Re: First Person restrictions - why bother?

I'm ducking in on a conversation about an event I didn't participate in. I just agree that the subject of first person should be kept in the air. If we are the reenacting faction which goes to the furthest lengths to recreate an event or moment in time, I don't see how it can be ignored.
I really like the analogy of first person as another language. It takes time to learn how to navigate it. I'm pretty new at it, and have run into snags. I see now why people say it's difficult.
One solid point that's been made here is to plan it in advance. I'm thinking this is the way to go. Prior to an event ask, via message boards or e-mail lists, who's interested in commiting to it. Create a mess of like minded participants, put together and share enough background information about where you are in place and time so that everyone involved in that mess will know what another guy's talking about regarding 'recent' events and issues, and a sketch of what each of your stories are: politics, job before the war, etc. This may tip the scale into first person as the standard within the group that you've staked out, and also give pause to whoever wanders into your sphere wanting to talk about the Lakers game.
None of these are new ideas. It's just the best approach I can see right now to ensure the best chance to practice 'speaking the language'.

[dave81276]

Re: First Person restrictions - why bother?

I've yet to attend an event where first person was kept. Even at Payne's Farm, the folks around the "dead fire" were yucking it up, and loudly. I got to hear more about modern roofing techniques that night than I ever wanted to know. Whenever the action slumps, folks are going to let their guards down, and you're going to have modern intrusions.

You can only work at keeping yourself in fir-per. I know sometimes you feel like giving up, and sometimes you might as well, because no one else is trying. Fir-per is not that hard, really. You have plenty to talk about; your family, your girlfriend, your friends (even your job, if you do it right). The average soldiers had lives before the army, and the guys in their companies came from their hometowns. You can chat about your life with your friends. Just drop the modern stuff. Really, that is all. But you can't let other people get you down.

[Jim of The SRR]

Re: First Person restrictions - why bother?

One reason that first person is hard to maintain is because the men in groups/messes are friends. Friends that may only get together a few times a year. Despite that, many share a deep bond and shared values not just in history, but personally, politically, spiritually, etc. Thus, they wish to share and bond again. In many cases, men don't get this type of quality pard time very often. Thus, they wish to talk about their modern lives, families, jobs, current events, etc. Honestly, this doesn't bother me that much as long as they are speaking softly and keeping their conversations amongst themselves. To me, the setting and WHAT we are DOING is most important to me. Men cooking pork and potatos over the fire in small pans or canteen halves sets a realistic scene. What the men are talking about doesn't really bother me that much as long as they aren't ruining other peoples moment. Frankly, men usually talk about the same things they talked about in the 19th c., with some variations. This is NOT an excuse, just an explaination.
At Race to Knoxville, I had the same experience with firper that Mr. Hicks witnessed.
However, I have been a to a few events where firper was held the entire time. (The Outpost events, LBL, Westville).

Regards,
Jim Butler

[Ken Cornett]

Re: First Person restrictions - why bother?

Well, since this topic has risen again, I want to give my two cents as well. Mess No. 1 approaches every event with first person in mind. One or two of us will volunteer to research the regiment/company we will be portraying. Now, we know if a an event doesn't stress first person that it most likely won't occur. However as a group we still prepare for it. For this event we were to be the 2nd Michigan Co. G. Mess mate Jake Dinkelaker took on the task of finding all he could. A few days before we left he sent us an incredible amount of detailed info on this particular company. When we joined up with our company, we could tell that the research would just be for our education purposes. It's not that the Yankees couldn't do it, it just wasn't meant to be for this event. It wasn't stressed as a "must" requirement or get kicked out of the event. That's okay.

We have been there before. Our research doesn't go to waste. It never does. However, the one thing that did get Jake a little upset was the fact we changed from company G to company B (then referred to as second company the rest of the event) to make things "easier" ???

Anyhow, other than that we had a nice time.

I do have to say that the Southern Guard events we have attended over the years have definitely been our best firpir events.

[Kiev Thomason]

Re: First Person restrictions - why bother?

Kiev,

allow me to break FurPer for a moment..."Its great to have you hear, you have a great impression, we need more colord boys like you in theis hobby, I can be an in-toe-lectual too"

Yeah...he was a idiot!Anyways back to this event.

[corncrackn]

Re: First Person restrictions - why bother?

The distracting flashes of light coming from the fort and the idiotic laughter from the inside were all coming from the mainstream guys that were inside the fort. The guy with the camera on Sunday was the same guy on the walls with the camera. If you remember, the flashes stopped after one of our men located in the forts trench covering the far left of the Federal line put one shot in his gut. Those types don't get the word "authentic" when it comes in the form of authentic event. Personally, I know the guys and was embarrassed for it. For the first person, I kept all modern out of my conversations until I was away from others

[Milliron]

Re: First Person restrictions - why bother?

After reading the continued discussion here, I feel there may be some more misunderstanding. Perhaps I didn't put enough emphasis on the actions of the participants, and instead went on too long about the converstations. Like Brian said, the actions are another story.

To me, the subcategories of reenacting that deal with authentic experiences fall under the "first person" genre, and that includes no modern equipment/acting as if you're actually under fire while the enemy is upon you.

That may explain some of the confusion, and why some people seem to have issues with my post. (?)

Or should I just shut up? :-p

Keep pushing, Scottie, this is the right attitude to have. However, in order to spare you disappointment down the line, I offer the following.

I was at this event, and was never under the idea that it was to be a "firper" or immersion event. Myself, I find firper very difficult to pull off well. I have been in the c/p/h end of the hobby thirteen years and have only seen believable firper pulled off universally successfully for the entirety of an event one time--at Outpost II in 2000. It's very hard to do.

That said, the quality of a living historian is defined by his impression. The ability to believably pull off 1st person interpretation is akin to Method acting. It takes a lot of time and effort to do, usually requires the participation of your pards, and the right event selection. The best firper I ever saw in my life was by Harrison Holloway and his Hairy Nation Boys at DustyMauga in 1999. I talked to those guys the whole weekend and didn't know they were doing firper until the end of the event, they were that good. Now, that wasn't an immersion event. Those guys made it one with the quality of their interpretation and impression. It helped that that event was one of the last really good mainstream events and had a pretty high authenticity factor.

My advice: if firper is what you crave, look for immersion events. Contact the Southern Guard--they do a lot of small firper events and are probably the most invested in this aspect of the hobby. Immersion events necessarily are smaller in order to maintain the quality of the interpretation. Both the authentic and mainstream sides of the hobby have been shrinking, so more and more events are including elements of both--this is a good thing, but there is a learning curve. Just do your thing and others will follow. Find the right group/mess/pards and you will improve the quality of the hobby in so doing.

[Terry Sorchy]

Re: First Person restrictions - why bother?

We have a veery fine full immersion event in June in Wisconsin. It is the Retreat from Bentonville event and maintaining first person is a prerequiste of attending the event. The ONV does a wonderful job of keeping in personna, so if you would like a home for an event come on out.
Cheers
Terry Sorchy
ONV

[Coatsy]

Re: First Person restrictions - why bother?

"we need more colord boys like you in theis hobby, I can be an in-toe-lectual too"

Marvin, that was the best "FIR PER" moment of 09 so far. You got to witness me losing my temper and chewing out that mongoloid.

And onto the discussion: (nothing to do with the Knoxville 500 event FYI)

FIR PER is easy. You just don't talk about modern stuff. You talk about the situation at hand, the food, your commanders, the enemy, the march to where you are at, the battle to come. Perhaps, as a participant of an “authentic event” you actually crack a book and read about the engagement or campaign. Perhaps even you are at a garrison event. You tell folks who are not keeping it "Fir Per" step away or cut it out. The “catch phrase” worked wonders at Winter of 64 and Westville.

I am not perfect at it, but the longer I stay in the hobby and go to events that are "authentic" the more I want out of them. I try. I give it a shot. I'm no actor, but it makes it more fun to "escape" for a day or two.

I've got a lot of pards that don't do "Fir Per" and that sucks for them cause they've missed “it” at a lot of good events and good times. Prelude to Chickamauga, Return to the Ranks, McAllister 06, Winter of 64 and Piney Woods, and definitely Westville all stand out because everyone cared about trying to keep it "in situation." They all had good event info, good leadership, good research and participants who attended for the most part gave a shit. And, as Brian Hicks mentioned, there was expressed communication stating “yes, fir per ahoy!” or “no fir per for you!”

Honestly I've seen it work well when the leadership sticks to it. If your officers and NCOs, sheriff, judge, whatever keep it real then you as the participant tend to want to play along.

I've gotten tired of Fir Per at events before, but I try not to screw anyone else's event up. It is never 100% perfect, but give it a shot, it might be…… fun….

[PogueMahone]

Re: First Person restrictions - why bother?

have only seen believable firper pulled off universally successfully for the entirety of an event one time--at Outpost II in 2000.

Was it OP1 or OP2 that was interrupted by a LifeFlight helo landing in the middle of the site to carry out the cavalryman with a head harder than rock?

[Coatsy]

Re: First Person restrictions - why bother?

To add something constructive to the topic (I know.. shocking coming from me) Kiev and I have found that learning period songs and "sang'n" are great FIR PER ice breakers. Get a good fire going, give me a tin cup and a spoon, let Kiev play dem bones and it is total Civil War Rock Band. People like music.

Heck, Bob Hutton, JJ, and I had a 3 hour conversation in Vesuvius about the "election" concerning Honest Abe at Winter of '64 and we didn't even know each other in real life. It just happened.

Just do a little reading, get you pards in on it, and let 'ur rip.

[Milliron]

Re: First Person restrictions - why bother?

Was it OP1 or OP2 that was interrupted by a LifeFlight helo landing in the middle of the site to carry out the cavalryman with a head harder than rock?

That was OPII. See, it was SO authentic, I blocked that out. The funny part is that is really kind of was--everybody kind of picked up where they left off.