Infantry Officers Carrying Cavalry Swords

[ajroscoe]

Re: Infantry Officers Carrying Cavalry Swords

I wish I had some evidence to share on this thread. Personally, when I am doing an officer, I carry either an M1850 Foot Officer's Sword (an original) or an M1850 Staff and Field (repro). I love how light the foot is, but also love the length of the staff and field. As reenactors, we never have to consider using our swords for real combat. While we have all sorts of nice statistics telling us how few wounds were caused by swords, the officers back then had no way of knowing that, certainly not at the start of the war when many were out buying their swords. I think generally, there are three kinds of swords

1. The swords that are so utterly useless that they could never be put into combat, such as the M1860 Staff and Field. Great for generals who sit on horses, not so much for a guy actually on the line.

2. Swords that look tougher but still don't really have a great combat record. I would generally put the foot officer's sword here. Its too short to really be of use, especially against someone with a bayonet.

3. Combat swords. I think of cavalry sabers especially here, swords that are big, long, and ugly, but you know they'll inflict some damage.

I'd love to get an M1833 Dragoon Saber at some point. Its long and straight, perfect for someone as tall as me (6'1"). I'll live with the sword hanging between my legs, but I feel there were probably a few officers who wanted a sword that would take down some bodies. Just my $.02 on the mater. If people can find some more examples, please post 'em!

[Charles Heath]

Re: Infantry Officers Carrying Cavalry Swords

"... officers of the 82nd Ohio that served at the Battle of McDowell carried a cavalry sabre. "

Tom,

That may have been Cantwell of the 82nd, but it was Chris Piering who needed the cavalry sabre in 2005. The original is hanging in the VC at Manassas, and Cantwell may have been killed there. As you said we'd need to look it up.

Lt. Donaldson of the 118th Pennsylvania "Corn Exchange Regiment" (former of the 71st PVI) is shown on the dust jacket image of "Inside the Army of the Potomac" with a cavalry sabre. Look at what else he is wearing.

[Huck]

Re: Infantry Officers Carrying Cavalry Swords

I think there is a photo in the LOC of Gen Meade and some young (staff type) officers on a porch. If I remember right one or two of the young officers are wearing a Cav sword. Anyone remembers that photo I am taking about........

[Micah Trent]

Re: Infantry Officers Carrying Cavalry Swords

Micah,

I asked this question of some pards not long ago. There is, in my opinion, enough evidence to support your using a cav saber as an infantry lieutenant. As recently as two weeks ago, "bigmick45" on Ebay had very nice repros of both enlisted and officer US M1860 cav sabers. Check 'em out!

I hate walking with a dang sword hanging from my hip and clattering about my legs. What keeps me from taking the plunge on a cav sword is the worry that the extra length would only make that problem worse.

Best of Luck to You!!

Thanks Wickett,

I was thinking that there would be enough evidence out there, but finding it has been a bit difficult. I just haven't been looking in the right places. I don't want to show up with people thinking "What the frig? " when they see me and there is nothing to really back it up on except for that one clip from a book I came across. Just needed some more facts, ya know.
I was thinking for the event and the scenario, it would be a neat impression, and I have put a lot a hard time and thought into this, but I didn't want to cross over into the farby thought.

[Huck]

Re: Infantry Officers Carrying Cavalry Swords

I found the photo I was thinking about. I believe that some of the younger officers are staff types (but not 100% sure).

[Huck]

Re: Infantry Officers Carrying Cavalry Swords

Found possible Arty Officers with Cav swords, possibly 17th NY.

[Huck]

Re: Infantry Officers Carrying Cavalry Swords

Aides de camp to Gen. Joseph Hooker: Capts. William L. Candler, Harry Russell, and Alexander Moore, more staff types, one with Cav sword.

[ajroscoe]

Re: Infantry Officers Carrying Cavalry Swords

Doing a quick look through oldpicture.com's civil war section, I saw these examples:

An 1865 picture of General Nugent with his staff near Washington. One officer has what appears to be a Light Artillery Officer's Sword.

A picture of General W. F. Smith and his staff. Two officers have cavalry sabers.

A picture of the 69th PA. One officer has a cavalry saber.

An 1863 picture of K company, 93rd NY. One officer has a sword that is very long and curved.

A picture of Lt. Col. A. Pipetti, 39th NY. He is carrying a cavalry sword.

A picture of Maj. Alexander Basezenwski, 31st NY. He is carrying a cavalry sword. He was KIA 7 May 1862.

A picture of Maj. W.W. Cook, 5th NHVI. He appears to be carrying a M1860 Cavalry saber.

Hope this helps!

[KeystoneGuard]

Re: Infantry Officers Carrying Cavalry Swords

Tom,
This is correct. I portray Barlow from time to time, and his letters state this fact. He was quite an odd man.

[FranklinGuardsNYSM]

Re: Infantry Officers Carrying Cavalry Swords

An August, 1861 letter written in D.C. from a member of Co. C, 7th Pennsylvania Reserves:

"The officers are armed in every conceivable shape; some with the regulation sword, others with artillery swords, cavalry swords, &c., but I presume after they receive their pay they will have the regulation swords and belts."

[Micah Trent]

Re: Infantry Officers Carrying Cavalry Swords

An August, 1861 letter written in D.C. from a member of Co. C, 7th Pennsylvania Reserves:

"The officers are armed in every conceivable shape; some with the regulation sword, others with artillery swords, cavalry swords, &c., but I presume after they receive their pay they will have the regulation swords and belts."

Marc,

Interesting find. Does that member quoted above of the Co. C, 7th PA Reserves go on to mention by chance if and when they purchased or were issued the regulation swords and belts?

Thanks.

[Brian Baird]

Re: Infantry Officers Carrying Cavalry Swords

General Logan carried a cav. saber during the vicksburg campaign. It was on display along with is saddle and one of his frock coats at the Military Museum, Camp Lincoln, Springfield. IL
Brian Baird

[Micah Trent]

Re: Infantry Officers Carrying Cavalry Swords

Thanks for your all's input. I think you have given me enough examples to run with here. If you still have more to share, please do. It has been interesting seeing some of these photos that have been posted.

Cheers!

[MBBursig]

Re: Infantry Officers Carrying Cavalry Swords

The Officers of the Twentieth New York Regiment, "United Turner Rifles".

It is unknown as to whether or not the sabers and uniforms were the photographer's, but there are Cavalry Swords visable.

[erik]

Re: Infantry Officers Carrying Cavalry Swords

Micah,
I believe that there is a missaprehension here. Officers were responsible for purchasing their own uniforms, accoutrements, rations and weapons. Allowances in their pay assisted them.
No officer could expect the Quartermaster to show up with a wagon full of the correct pattern swords or belts and say sign here. These articles were private property which were required to be worn and should have been regulation.
Cavalry swords or light cavalry swords were a private decision based upon flair or a belief that the cavalry sword was a superior weapon and allowed by a slack or tolerant commander.
It depends on the impression that you can document as to what you can wear.
If 35% of the 15th New York Mess Tin Repair unit officers wore light cavalry swords you could wear one with a clear mind. It is far better practice to carry regulation.
Swords are an encumbrance, don't go bang, are hard to keep clean, but a necessary emblem of an officer.
Beside the forgoing, without a sword what will you lean on or pose with?

Erik Simundson