Canteens on dress??

[Eric Hageman]

I need help settling an argument that is taking place between two individuals in our unit. Our unit is doing color guard at a banquet. This will be a very formal occasion. All agree that no haversacks should be warn, but the disputed issue is weather or not we should be wearing our canteens. One guy says that they were used for dress occasions, one guy says NO. The fact is, civil war era photos have been produced showing both. I looked in the 1863 US Army Regulations, The Military Handbook & Soldier's Manual, and Kautz 1865 Customs of Service and could find nothing. Please, no opinions here - already have enough of them! Can anybody guide me to a FACTUAL period reference on the matter of formal dress while on guard, and if, or if not, canteens are to be used as part of their dress?

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Eric Hageman

[Crockett]

Re: Canteens on dress??

Eric,

The way we settle an argument down here in Tennessee is to have a good, ole fashioned whip race. The one left standing, or not so bad off, is considered the winner and therefor correct. Being from Michigan I suppose that you could let the those in dispute whack each other with their canteens and see who comes out ahead, or with their head.

Hope this helps. Your friend in Tennessee.

Joe Mode

[Charles Heath]

Re: Canteens on dress??

"...at a banquet."

This question answered itself.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Canteens on dress??

Hallo!

Herr Charles is correct... the question answered itself.

"Color guard at a banquet."

Back to History...

Historically, Period regs, "customs" handbooks, Period first person accounts, and Period images of formal parades appear to show a variety of practices seemingly based upon the regs and customs, units and commanders, and more particuilarly the nature of the "parade" or review function.

Meaning, things coud be different for the Color Guard as well as the rest of the men at a full formal pass-in-review such as at the corps level versus say a regimental or battalion level weekly dress parade leading to an inspection where the men would have to be in light marching order with ordnance stores or even full marching order (knapsacks).

Other "guard mounting" did not have the men in marching order which is what haversacks and canteens were part of.

IMHO, if the parade function is review with no subsequent inspection, there is no need for the men"s "full dress" to include marching order kit.

Ideally, the time, circumstances, and place of the unit being portrayed might have been captured on film and can be replicated as to what is see ging on in the image.

(Not appropriate to this Forum.... Totally unrelated, in the Modern World, haversacks at parades are usefull for car keys, c-phones, wallets, sun glasses, bills and coins for vendor snacks, recruit handout cards, pens, smokes, etc.
And the canteen can be of help on long hot days when having to stand through hours of speeches.)

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt

[Greg Renault]

Re: Canteens on dress??

To expand on Chawls' comments: the occasion tells you what to wear. When "at a banquet" you will be at an occasion that requires dress uniform. You will not be under arms, so no accoutrements; you will not be on fatigue or in the field, so do not wear items appropriate to those occasions like knapsack, haversack, or canteen.

The dress uniform requirements are found in the Revised U.S. Army Regulations of 1861, Article LI, paragraph 1482:

1454. The uniform coat for all enlisted foot men, shall be a single-breasted frock of dark blue cloth, made without plaits, with a skirt extending one-half the distance from the top of the hip to the bend of the knee; one row of nine buttons on the breast, placed at equal distances; stand-up collar, to rise no higher than to permit the chin to turn freely over it, to hook in front at the bottom and then to slope up and backward at an angle of thirty degrees on each side; cuffs pointed according to pattern, and to button with two small buttons at the under seam; collar and cuffs edged with a cord or welt of cloth as follows, to wit: Scarlet for Artillery; sky-blue for Infantry; yellow for Engineers; crimson for Ordnance and Hospital stewards. On each shoulder a metallic scale according to pattern; narrow lining for skirt of the coat of the same color and material as the coat; pockets in the folds of the skirts with one button at each hip to range with the lowest buttons on the breast; no buttons at the ends of the pockets.

Here is the same text, from General Order #6 ((March 13, 1861):

12...The uniform coat for all enlisted foot men, shall be a single - breasted frock of dark blue cloth, made without plaits, with a skirt extending one - half the distance from the top of the hip to the bend of the knee; one row of nine buttons on the breast placed at equal distances ; stand - up collar to rise no higher than to permit the chin to turn freely over it, to hook in front at the bottom and then to slope up and backward at an angle of thirty degrees on each side ; cuffs pointed according to pattern, and to button with two small buttons at the under seam ; collar and cuffs edged with a cord or welt of cloth as follows, to wit: Scarlet for Artillery; sky blue for Infantry; yellow for Engineers; crimson for Ordnance and Hospital stewards. On each shoulder a metallic scale according to pattern ; narrow lining for skirt of the coat of the same color and material as the coat ; pockets in the folds of the skirts with one button at each hip to range with the lowest buttons on the breast ; no buttons at the ends of the pockets.

And, here is the illustration from the 1866 QM manual. As you asked about colour guard, this is the sergeant pic (http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/186..._2/insgt.jpg):

[Eric Hageman]

Re: Canteens on dress??

Thanks for the input! I Hope this settles things.
Eric Hageman

[Dan Munson]

Re: Canteens on dress??

A further discussion, from 1861 U.S. Army Regulations, on the "when" and "where" of wearing haversack and canteen:

112. Haversacks will be marked upon the flap with the number and name of the regiment, the letter of the company, and number of the soldier, in black letters and figures. And each soldier must, at all times, be provided with a haversack and canteen, and will exhibit them at all inspections. It will be worn on the left side on marches, guard, and when paraded for detached service-the canteen outside the haversack.

[Roger Hansen]

Re: Canteens on dress??

I think it would be done same as today. The commander of the detail at the function, or his aide, would tell the troops what he expected their attire to be.

Roger Hansen