Help for the color blind/anomalous: Crimson Sash!

[RJSamp]

Re: Help for the color blind/anomalous: Crimson Sash!

This is the afore mentioned image.
Here is a link to the auction page.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mint-U-S-Officer...3286.m20.l1116

To my eye.....this is SCARLET, not CRIMSON. The Officer's sashes in reenacting today are darker/bluer/purpler than this picture. WINE, not arterial blood red.

SO what we are using today is wrong?

[RJSamp]

Re: Help for the color blind/anomalous: Crimson Sash!

Interesting example in that it has the "net" above the tassle rather than the more commonly encountered (in my experience) "turks head" knot which resembles a basket weave. I'm not sure of the correct terms here. Some 15 or more years ago, the common repros had netting knots like this...but also had rather large wooden plugs that made the tassles hang much fatter than on original sashes. Not sure what the current state-of-the-art repro sash is configured like nowadays, but I would tread with caution.

Sorry this doesn't have anything to add to the crimson discussion, but I can post a closeup photo of one of my originals this weekend if that would be of any small help.

Paul McKee

Thanks [in advance] Paul!

[RJSamp]

Re: Help for the color blind/anomalous: Crimson Sash!

Mr. Hares,

I've been trying to figure out how to speak to this question for a couple of days now, and can't quite get a good purchase on it, as I'm not familiar with the contract requirements from these items.

So, I'll attempt to talk in general terms. First, for my reds, I work primarily in cochineal and madder --I've used kermes, but not enough to 'know' what its going to do. So, I'm going to speak to the properties of cochineal only.

Cochineal can range from a 'baby pink' to a 'screaming hot pink' with one mordant (metal salts that fix dye--alum, stannous chloride, copper sulfate, iron) while producing a deep maroon with another, out of the same lot of bugs with the same strength of dye. Use of creme of tartar to remove the purple tint from this dye is also a variable.

I pre-mordant yarns beforehand--separate from the dyepot. So that when its time to set up a big cochineal dyepot, I can put in skeins of yarn premodanted with alum, tin, and copper, and get graduated colors in a complementary range, as shown below (in this case, a kit for a documented scarf, produced and sold by Robin Stokes).

Further, I could take the same dyepot, and put silk yarns in at the same time, and get different shades with the same mordant, simply because silk takes dye differently than wool.

And, if I started again tomorrow with a sack of cochineal bugs from a different source, even if I measured everything precisely and held the dye temperature just so, I'm going to get a variation in color. Oh, and water content matter too--and for true true reds from cochineal, I've got to have distilled water----in my mordant pots, in my dyepots, and in my rinse water.

So, I can't really answer RJ's question.

I do know that I have examined an original sash (I have no idea what rank it was for) made of silk with a wool tassel. While its likely that they matched closely at the time of manufacture, the oxidation process had happened differently for the two fibers. What was horrifying at the time was that the collector had brought that original to me in hopes of having it redyed in a period dye, to freshen the color. I wasn't ever really sure we had him talked out of such an effort.

OK I'll simplify the question.

Officer's sashes in today's reanacting are a dark red.....WINE. Un bon vin rouge. I call that Crimson, like the Crimson Tide, U of A. http://www.universitysupplystore.com/

Scarlet to me is a more orangey/lighter red.

An officer buddy of mine has a Silk sash, which looks scarlet to me, he says that it is crimson.....and if you had an original 1862 silk material officer's sash it would be this lighter/orangier hue.....crimson.

So in 1862 is crimson a WINE/darker red.....or is it an orangier red....in a silk net sash.

Next time you are at a reenactment.look at all of the officer's sashes.....is that what color crimson is in 1862?