pig sticker tie down?

[musketbal]

Hi all,
Is there any documentation that Federal and Confederates when going into battle would secure their bayonet with string, leather or other methods? Running and rolling around could possibly cause your pig sticker to get lost?

Thanks,

Brent Conner

[Jimmayo]

Re: pig sticker tie down?

In over 25 years of reenacting I have only seen a couple of bayonets lost. These were bayonets carried in Enfield scabbards. In one case the whole scabbard and bayonet was lost due to having the wrong style frog (buckle and strap). I know several people who still use the enfield scabbard and they have their bayonets tied in place. A baldric type scabbard is more comfortable and secures the bayonet much better. Since these were more commonly used, accidental loss of bayonets may not have been a significant problem.

To answer your question, I have never read of the bayonets being tied down. If they did it, they probably did not write home about it.

[benjclark]

Re: pig sticker tie down?

I've wondered about this also, but have never seen anything. Good question.

[musketbal]

Re: pig sticker tie down?

Jim your right on the money, I have a 42 Springfield and a Enfield. The Enfield bayonet is why I asked the question. I guess staight up and down isn't always best???? I purchased a new frog from Nick Duvall. Unfortunately I didn't order the shebang from him.




Brent

[DougCooper]

Re: pig sticker tie down?

Excuse me Mr Yank (or Mr Reb), could you hold still while I untie my bayonet?

I would be somewhat amazed to ever read an example of a combat soldier doing such a thing...unless his fear of paying for a new one somehow overcame his fear of not having it instantly available + fear of the Orderly if he noticed ;)

Like Jim, the only lost bayonets I have seen in reenacting were due to a poor fitting scabbard. That is one reason pro's lile Nick Duvall want to know exactly which bayonet you have before he makes the scabbard (original vs repro, type, etc).

[FloridaConscript]

Re: pig sticker tie down?

I think a proper bayonet and correct scabbard are the remedy to this situation.

[musketbal]

Re: pig sticker tie down?

I will be getting an order in from Nick Duvall tomorrow. Cartridge box, cap pouch, cartridge box belt, federal waist belt, and English "snake" belt. One thing missing, yea you guessed it, the correct bayonet scabbard. Crap... it'll be worth the weight.

Brent Conner

[FloridaConscript]

Re: pig sticker tie down?

Brent,
I don't know what untit you most often portray, but sometimes when doing Johnny, leaving the bayonet at home is another good choice. I rarely carry mine when doing AOT.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: pig sticker tie down?

I think a proper bayonet and correct scabbard are the remedy to this situation.

I'm inclined to agree with Mess'r Roberts! If the bayonet fits properly in the scabbard, this shouldn't be an issue... unless you're doing cartwheels or something! :tounge_sm

There are a lot of vendors out there making really good bayonet scabbards. Missouri Boot & Shoe is probably the most cost effective vendor for scabbards right now. I own several of their scabbards and am quite pleased with materials, construction, and fit.

[DougCooper]

Re: pig sticker tie down?

Brent,
I don't know what untit you most often portray, but sometimes when doing Johnny, leaving the bayonet at home is another good choice. I rarely carry mine when doing AOT.

This is off the topic...but why?

[Silas]

Re: pig sticker tie down?

An example comes from the inventory returns of the 44th Tennessee in early '63. Half the weapons lacked bayonets. That doesn't mean for all regiments at all times portrayed it's appropriate for half the reenactors to go without bayonets. Just means for a particular impression at a particular place and time, it can be okay for half the reenactors to go without.

[FloridaConscript]

Re: pig sticker tie down?

This is off the topic...but why?

Doug,
Silas has already mentioned it, but going on some QM reports published in Larry J. Daniels excellent "Soldiering in the Army of Tennessee", it was not uncommon for some divisions to be undersupplied by half when it came to a bayonet.

I don't have the book in front of me (at work), but will post the info later on.

[DougCooper]

Re: pig sticker tie down?

An example comes from the inventory returns of the 44th Tennessee in early '63. Half the weapons lacked bayonets. That doesn't mean for all regiments at all times portrayed it's appropriate for half the reenactors to go without bayonets. Just means for a particular impression at a particular place and time, it can be okay for half the reenactors to go without.

Exactly. Thanks Silas.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: pig sticker tie down?

Because I can't resist stating the obvious, real civil war soldiers in real battles would more likely have their bayonets already out of the scabbards, fixed.

[Jimmayo]

Snapshot of rifles.

I don't think we can assume that bayonets were fixed just because the troops were engaged in a battle. It doesn't take but a few seconds to fix bayonets. Shooting a musket with a fixed bayonet affects loading and firing just enough so if it were not necessary, bayonets would not be attached. The picture below provides a snapshot of bayonet use. These five rifles came from a covered over CS trench which was captured early in the seige of Petersburg. All were dug the same day. They were in various stages of firing, some with unfired caps, some fired etc. Notice that only two had bayonets attached. Both bayonets are Springfield type even though one of the muskets is an Enfield. Eventually eight rifles came from this trench. Only these two had the bay0nets attached. A dropped bayonet was also found in the trench so they were available. Just thought I would post this for consideration.