Gray Federal Overcoats / Greatcoats

[RyanBWeddle]

I am looking for documentation of the use of gray woolen overcoats / greatcoats by Federal/State/Union/Northern/Yankee regiments 1860-1865. I know there are several well known examples.

I am looking for these, and more to make sure I haven't missed any . . .

Please post with documentation on specific regiments, diary accounts, letters, QMD returns, any photos, extant originals (material, patterns, linings, buttons), etc. etc.

ANY PERIOD DOCUMENTATION is appreciated.

Ryan

[John of the Skulkers Mess]

Re: Gray Federal Overcoats / Greatcoats

I am looking for documentation of the use of gray woolen overcoats / greatcoats by Federal/State/Union/Northern/Yankee regiments 1860-1865. I know there are several well known examples.

I am looking for these, and more to make sure I haven't missed any . . .

Please post with documentation on specific regiments, diary accounts, letters, QMD returns, any photos, extant originals (material, patterns, linings, buttons), etc. etc.

ANY PERIOD DOCUMENTATION is appreciated.

Ryan

See D. Culbertson's thread (below) on 'dyeing shirts' regarding the 13th Illinois book.

The last quote mentions the soldier lamenting the loss of their gray overcoats and getting stuck with plain ol blue.




John Pillers
skulkerjohn@yahoo.com

[markj]

Re: Gray Federal Overcoats / Greatcoats

Hi,

I haven't immediately seen anything about gray overcoats but, while perusing the order book of the 49th Ohio at the National Archives (RG 94), I noted a December 1862 order appointing a board of survey to evaluate the "black overcoats" recently issued to that regiment. The 49th OVI undoubtedly wore these same coats at Stones River just a few weeks later.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Silas]

Re: Gray Federal Overcoats / Greatcoats

Some of the Mass troops at Balls Bluff had gray coats.

I recall reading it several years ago in a diary account or letters home. I don't recall the specific unit, but it was the same one in which Oliver Wendell Holmes served. The writer died during the Battle of the Wilderness. The cover of the book had him wearing light blue trousers and vest. The lapels were very opened.

I think the writer was upset that he had lost his coat during the battle. Apparently, it was quite warm, and his US issue replacement was quite inferior to his old one.

Cannot give you the citation, but I've got you in the ballpark. You'll need to take it from there.

Silas

[Foggy Bottom Jim]

Re: Gray Federal Overcoats / Greatcoats

I think the unit you are referring to is the 20th Mass - The Harvard Regiment. I have heard as well that they had grey greatcoats at Balls Bluff. Dunno if they had them at Fredericksburg where they did some serious street fighting. There's a modern painting of this action but no sure what color coats thay are portrayed in.

Hope it helps!

Jim Reynolds

[Michigander]

Re: Gray Federal Overcoats / Greatcoats

I am looking for documentation of the use of gray woolen overcoats / greatcoats by Federal/State/Union/Northern/Yankee regiments 1860-1865. I know there are several well known examples.

I am looking for these, and more to make sure I haven't missed any . . .

Please post with documentation on specific regiments, diary accounts, letters, QMD returns, any photos, extant originals (material, patterns, linings, buttons), etc. etc.

ANY PERIOD DOCUMENTATION is appreciated.

Ryan

Hello Ryan;

I suspect this information is either not what you were looking for, or it may be old news to you.....but. It is well documented that the Berdan's Sharpshooters (1st USSS) were originally issued Grey Felt Great Coats. These coats were subsequently replaced by standard sky blue coats due at least in part to the possibility of confusion with CS Troops. It is also noted that the felt coats became stiff as a board after getting rain soaked.
R. Jones
Flagstaff, AZ

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Gray Federal Overcoats / Greatcoats

Mr. Jones is correct, the 1st and 2nd U.S. Sharpshooters were issued a limited number of gray wool felt seamless overcoats early in the war. From all appearances these coats were not lined in any way, had a detachable cape, a fall-down collar, had all edges bound with dark green wool tape (dark blue in the case of infantry sky blue models), and featured very interesting pockets which were made from felting a piece of wool felt to the inner side of the coat body, below the waist. I've seen many examples of these coats being worn by the USSS in several early images and just tonight I ran across an image of an infantry officer sporting what may be the dark or medium blue version of the same seamless garment. In addition, Don Troiani provided me with a few photos of an original sky blue seamless felt coat in a private collection.

My take on these garments is that they were simply a civilian bad-weather garment that happened to be distributed to some early-war regiments. The Seamless Clothing Manufacturing Company also made seamless capes, hooded cloaks, over-shoes, and caps of all varieties including the famous or infamous "Whipple Cap" and "Loomis Cap." Aside from military images of these seamless wool felt outer-garments I've seen in a civilian ambrotype a double-breasted seamless coat being worn with the cape detached. This image is a bit more up close than the USSS images I've seen and you can definitley tell that the coat is felt and was most likely felted onto some kind of a former by hand, then trimmed on the edges with dark tape. The buttons on this civilian's coat were large plain-faced "pin-shank" hard rubber buttons, these being the same variety used by some members of the 2nd U.S. Sharpshooters (I have yet to see use of that style of button in the 1st U.S.S.S.). Another civilian image from a local historical society collection shows a woman wearing what looks like a seamless felt "hooded capelet," as I call it; the front has applied zig-zagging trim and the hood is lined with what looks like an elaborate striped print. The cape COULD have seams but under magnification I could not see one single seam anywhere near the neck/hood line, or along any visible part of the hood.

Another piece of evidence that these seamless garments were intended to be sold to civilians before military persons comes from the diary of a soldier in the 1st U.S. Sharpshooters. Although I am not permitted to give out the man's name or the specific quote, he mentioned that part of the regiment was out in gray felt coats trimmed with red instead of dark green. It was noted in late 1861 that Colonel Berdan was upset with the Seamless Clothing Co. for not supplying coats to his specific requirements and he was compelled by the Seamless Clothing Manuf. Co. officials to take several hundred gray coats with RED TRIM that were "on-hand" at the time as no coats with dark green trim could be had. Apparently these same coats were also issued with "red metal" buttons, presumably since no rubber buttons were on hand at the time. The gray color seems to have been very light in shade and it was intended by Berdan that these coats, worn with the matching seamless caps and "Austrian gray" pants as issued to a few USSS companies early on, were to be used in winter as a method of concealment.

Before I go on even longer with this, I'll conlude by saying that yes, gray wool felt SEAMLESS (how they did it and made it look so good I do not know) overcoats, most likely intented to be worn by civilians in inclement weather, were issued to the U.S. Sharpshooters. And yes, sky blue seamless wool felt overcoats were likewise issued to some infantry regiments, seemingly from the New England area. Just how common they were is not known but they did exist.

If you want some quotes, photos, etc., mail me and I'll get to it. Here is that eBay link I mentioned above. The officer wearing the seamless coat is on the top row, far right. Note the pocket under his hand, rounded front edges, dark binding on the coat edges, and the turned down collar.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2223641458&category=13960

Brian White
Randolph Mess, USSS
GHTI
W., W. & Co.

[styler]

Re: Gray Federal Overcoats / Greatcoats

Most if not all Mass units were supplied with gray overcoats at the start of the war - I believe a carryover from the militia supplies. The 29th Mass (the core of which were 3 month companies from April, '61) came to Fortress Monroe in gray overcoats. Unfortunately, I can't recall when or if they were issued blue overcoats. They served until the end of the war (and hither and yon), so a look at their regimental history may give you more info on the ins and outs of Massachusetts supplies.

I think the unit you are referring to is the 20th Mass - The Harvard Regiment. I have heard as well that they had grey greatcoats at Balls Bluff. Dunno if they had them at Fredericksburg where they did some serious street fighting. There's a modern painting of this action but no sure what color coats thay are portrayed in.

[RyanBWeddle]

Re: Gray Federal Overcoats / Greatcoats

Thanks for the posts, I have info on the 20th Mass, as well as USSS.

If anyone else can dig up some documentation regarding to other regiments it's appreciated.

This is kinda the type of source I am looking for: From Troiani's Soldiers in America, p. 135 --

"Camp Thomas
Headquarters 18th Regt, U.S. Infantry
Columbus, Ohio Dec. 10th, 1861
Col. G.H. Crosman, Q.M. Genl.

Sir,
The Invoice of overcoats just received for this Regiment names these as “Gray” which is not the uniform of the Army and differs from those which one thousand of our men are now wearing. I beg most earnestly to represent that to use these overcoats will draw an invidious destination between the 18th and other Regiment’s – create dissatisfaction and seriously interfere with our recruiting by perpetually injurious comparisons between us and volunteers.

I shall be greatly obliged if you will promptly furnish regulation blue overcoats and order the Regimental QM to turn over the “Gray” to Capt. Myers who can easily find use for them. I respectfully request your immediate attention to this matter. Our men are suffering but I am not willing for the saving of a few days to furnish clothing so seriously objectionable.

Very respectfully,
Wm. A. Stokes
Maj. 18th U.S. Inf."


Thanks again and keep 'em coming!
Ryan