Officer's impression

[erik]

Given an understanding that an officer is more about the leader than the material, I am wanting an answer to a fundimental question.
The Revised Regulations for the Army, 1861, page 514, section 44, states that " officer's baggage will be limited to blankets, one small valise or carpet bag, and a moderate mess kit...".
EOG page 225 shows a mess kit attributed to LT. William Camac Philidelphia City Cavalry held in the Atlanta museum.
Is this a moderate mess kit?
I have researched R.E. Lee's mess kit which is much more moderate than the EOG example.
On the march plate, cup and boiler are sufficient, accompanmied by my British messtin.
I use a Bartholomae mess set for cutlery. As a Company commander I should provide for my officers.
I possess a jappaned tin trunk equivalent to the EOG sample.
Should I stock this to feed three to four officers and hope for its arrival with the baggage?
I know that this is among the understudied factors but, is nonetheless a reality of the period.

Erik Simundson

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Officer's impression

Personally, and this is just me, I would answer the question differently for each event. The revision to the Regulations represents an attempt to set a kind of ceiling for all officers on the march, but different army commanders could lower that ceiling. In camp or garrison a different situation obtains altogether.

Here's an example of Theodore Ayrault Dodge's load on the Peninsula in 1862 from On Campaign with the Army of the Potomac, The Civil War Journal of Theodore Ayrault Dodge, Stephen W. Sears, ed., Cooper Square Press, NY 2001:

June 29th “The wagons have carried a little valise for me. My sash, Commission, glass, revolver & sword I carry with me, and 3 days’ rations of hard bread, with pen, ink and paper, 2 or 3 pocket handkerchiefs, a pair of stockings &c in my haversack. Henry (my servant) carries my overcoat, blankets and some rations.”

p. 35 June 30th “I have just taken breakfast with great delectation. Unsling haversack and canteen, squat down & place the former between my knees and the latter resting against the former; open the haversack, extract a brown cartridge paper, which unroll and find a chunk of boiled beef; cut therefrom one third of a day’s ration, take also 2 sea-crackers and begin to eat, drinking splendid fresh spring water from my canteen. Suddenly says Verdi on my right, ‘Want a piece of bologna?’ and cuts a slice off the same, whose spicy juice would raise the dead! What breakfast could possibly compare with this...”

What's interesting about this is the fact that it dates from fairly early in the war, comes from one of the better equipped and supported armies, and the officer has a servant. Despite this, he's still traveling pretty light. Dodge was the regiment's adjutant, so it's not as if he suffered disproportionately.

But I would be remiss in not providing an example of a more elaborate mess set-up, in this case illustrated by a box from home requested for a more stationary situation by Captain Robert Cornwell of the 67th PVI on October 26, 1863 (from Libby Prison and Beyond A Union Staff Officer in the East, 1862-1865 Thomas M. Boaz, ed., 1999 Burd Street Press):

"Let it contain about as follows: 1 large canvass ham, 1 hank dried beef, 15 lbs. sugar, 1 gal. syrup, molasses, 20 lbs. cheese, 15 or 20 lbs. butter, 10 lbs. large, ½ doz. cans condensed milk, 1 sack corn meal, 1 peck lima beans, ½ lb. ground pepper, 1 box mustard, 1 box leaven, 1 doz. nutmegs & a grater, some chocolate, settling for coffee, ground ginger, pickles, chestnuts, butter crackers, army soap, a tin cooking boiler with lid & handle holding about a gallon, a half gallon tin bake pan, small frying pan, quart cup, tin plate, knife, fork & spoon, skein black thread, quire letter paper, 2 packs envelopes, small bottle ink, pen holder and pens, tooth brush, small looking glass, comb, hair brush, 1 doz. paper collars (15 in.), 1 enameled steel collar, 1 pair woolen drawers, a hasp, two staples, padlock & key, 2 hinges & screws. Put up also in a separate box 1½ bushels of potatoes & ½ bushel of onions. I leave the rest to your own discretion."

The cook ware is nice, but I particularly like the steel collar.

Anyway, the short answer, as always, is it depends.

[erik]

Re: Officer's impression

Michael,
Thank you for the reference. I am not too far off in marching order. The quote reminds me of John Kincaid of the Rifle Brigade during the Peninsular War who carried a few biscuits, a flask, two sausages, a handkerchief and six pistol cartridges in his havresack.
Not much had changed over 50 years.
The more extensive kit is interesting as it gives clues to the content and tastes of the time. I hope this was not during his time in Libby prison as I cannot see a rasp being allowed.
Enameled steel collar? Yikes.

Erik Simundson

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Officer's impression

Michael,
Thank you for the reference. I am not too far off in marching order. The quote reminds me of John Kincaid of the Rifle Brigade during the Peninsular War who carried a few biscuits, a flask, two sausages, a handkerchief and six pistol cartridges in his havresack.
Not much had changed over 50 years.
The more extensive kit is interesting as it gives clues to the content and tastes of the time. I hope this was not during his time in Libby prison as I cannot see a rasp being allowed.
Enameled steel collar? Yikes.

Erik Simundson

He actually was in prison at the time, so it tells us something about the courtesies of war as well. Officer prisoners still have their privileges and, although the Confederate dollar has dropped to about a tenth the value of a greenback, they have not yet forbidden boxes (they will shortly, especially as the exchange system breaks down).

The captain has ordered a hasp, not a rasp, which means he's asked his family to send, with the box, the hardware necessary to turn it into a chest he can lock against casual pilfering. I do wonder though if the paper collars weren't a way of making the steel collar more innocuous looking because eventually he's one of the fellows who tunnels out of Libby and something like that might have come in handy.

Or maybe not. You see ads for enamel collars in a lot of newspapers and magazines (see the bottom of this page, toward the right: http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoun...-cartoon.htm); they probably weren't much less comfortable than starch or paper, and would of course be a bit more durable. No speckleware ones, though :)

But, wandering back to the point, a mess of several officers sounds right, but you have to satisfy yourself about the kit. The one in EOG might have survived because it was sent home early on, or not -- that officer's journal might survive somewhere, and surely there's a regimental history that tells us what sort of service the unit did. Depending on the kind of event you find yourself at, the mess kit may be either entirely inappropriate or leagues beyond the hardtack-box coolers that others are using.

Or maybe there's someone else reading this thread who has made a study of the matter and can actually help you. I just posted the first two things that came to mind -- thanks for bearing with me.

[DougCooper]

Re: Officer's impression

Michael these are outstanding references and a great example of how we all ought to be weighing in on these threads. Well done!

Capt Wilbur I Duffy, 1st Minn Co I, wrote a letter dated Sept 24, 1863 during a 6 day recon in force from Culpeper to the Rapidan. He mentions that they were in "light marching order which means without blankets." He also mentions using "poor paper, poor ink and the ground for a table." That may have been one of those times where "plate, cup, canteen and cutlery" were the sum total of mess items.

[AndrewGrim]

Re: Officer's impression

I am just finishing The Civil War Reminiscences of Major Silas T. Grismore, a Trans-Mississippi Confederate officer. He talks about buying food from local civilians. He talks about who he ate with. He does not mention his mess kit. He also talks about having brandy. He was regimental quartermaster, and only mentions not having a tent is when he is not with the baggage trains.

[Marylander in Grey]

Re: Officer's impression

Typically when on campain I am in light marching order. I do carry my plate and silverware, with a colapesable cup and my dipper in my haversack.. These are for the of chance that a Senior Officer invites me to dine with them. Social ediquite must be upheld.
For Winter Quarters / non campain the only furniture my mess use are such. We have a small chest with a frying pan, a coffee pot, a small pot, a trivet (Spider) for the fire. A jar of pickles, a can of prepared coffee, some sugar, salt, and some pepper sauce.
We try to purchase foods found in the region and time frame of available harvests. This is done no matter the event. At some events we dont eat it just depends on the Portrayal.
Each Officer has his own individual mess kit, his own camp furniture, and latrine materials.
As for Tenting usually we try to find lodging at the event if possible a porch works great. For Non campain events usually its 2 officers to a shelter, small wall A tent exct... I use my 2 shelter halves or just my rubberized blanket and a cape.
We used Blackfords My war Years with Jeb Stuart as a basis as to how to be equiped for messing.

[PogueMahone]

Re: Officer's impression

Chris,

Rather than tell us how you reenact, could you share some quotes from the book to tell us what information it contains about officer's mess equipment?

We could all answer the question with "this is how I do it", but that doesn't answer the question of "what is/was a moderate mess kit", do it?

[Marylander in Grey]

Re: Officer's impression

Joe,
Iam truly sorry. I will but some togeather for you.

[PogueMahone]

Re: Officer's impression

No need to apologize, Chris. I'm just making a point.

Too often discussions on the forums begin with a question of "What is the historical documentation?" and devolve into answers of "this is how we reenact". We all need to remember that the answers to our questions were provided nearly 150 years ago by "those who fought here". What we do is usually only a shadow of what history shows us and the more we focus on what they did the better we get.

[paulcalloway]

Re: Officer's impression

Too often discussions on the forums begin with a question of "What is the historical documentation?" and devolve into answers of "this is how we reenact". We all need to remember that the answers to our questions were provided nearly 150 years ago by "those who fought here". What we do is usually only a shadow of what history shows us and the more we focus on what they did the better we get.

Well said Joe. Quoted for emphasis.

[GrumpyDave]

Re: Officer's impression

Agreed. I posted some "boredom caused" research on May 18 at 4:37pm on one on the AC Social Groups. Joe, are you stealin' my work?

I chose 15 topics at random(it's slow here at work today). I counted the posts on each topic. Then I separated them into three catagories, Fact, Opinion, Useless Drool. The 15 topics contained a total of 193 posts, excluding the original topic(193 + 15=208 total).

Here's the results:
Fact(with a source listed)-17 posts or 9%
Opinion(like the thing (*) on the south end of a north bound mule, everybody's got one) - 122 posts or 63%
Useless Drool(Hey! dude! where you been? Forum used like an AIM account) - 54 posts or 28%

Joe,:wink_smil I couldn't have said it better.

[erik]

Re: Officer's impression

I have stood back from the fray over the last days and watched the post develop. It has develop, as all posts do, and strayed from the original question, "what constitutes a modest mess kit in the eyes of the Regulations?"
I understand how to live in the field with the contents of my havresack, canteen and pockets.
I know how to live on scraps of left over meat, make coffee over twigs at a halt, kill and gut a chicken and cook it (roast or clay baked?), make flour and water biscuits on a ramrod, sleep with a blanket and maybe an oiled cloth and forage.
My first winter exercise in the Canadian Army put us in the field with two blankets and a rubber poncho. We slept in WWII wool battledress and greatcoats and my Corporal only said, on inspection in the morning, "not shaved and tie askew". I got extra duties of course.
What I wished to know is if anyone had seen any references to officer's modest mess kits used in the field?
I have previously seen the references quoted and was inspired by Charles Haydon's single line quote of a charge of $6.00 toward the company mess chest in Country, Cause and Leader, isbn 0-395-66360-1, page 100.
I have been alowed to measure and photograph a British officer's mess chest from the 1850's held by the Toronto Historical Board. I have had several items replicated and have used them for many years.
R.E. Lee's mess kit is the most compact and admirable of them all. Probably produced by Godet of Paris and available by purchase ( for the Union from Tiffany's).
Thank you for all you insights.
When the Mess kit came up it would be roast beef on the grill for Supper and liver in the pan for breakfast. When it did not, then what is in your havresack or you can beg from the men or you turn a blind eye to forage and take your share.

Erik Simundson

Not a gourmand, but likes food.
Snake does not taste like chicken, chicken tastes like snake. A ploy on the part of Chicken marketing boards

[PogueMahone]

Re: Officer's impression

Erik,

I think part of the answer to your question lies within the man. Officers bought their own mess gear. Personal preferences come into play as well as the expense of the thing. Availability of certain articles at the time the kit was being assembled certainly affects what will be in it.

Something else to consider is how many times baggage trains were captured by the enemy's raiding cavalry. Surely an officer's mess kit was plunder to be taken! That means an officer would have to assemble a new mess kit. After a couple of losses, he might forego the expense and cobble together a simpler kit.

Did his cook only prepare meals for the officer or for the other staff as well? The more people you feed, the larger kit you need.

These are some things to consider. I don't think the Army was going to inspect the officer's mess kit and deem it "immoderate" and confiscate it. I think "moderate" was an adjective designed to temper the excitement of buying a bunch of new gear and showing it off in the parking lot before the big battle.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Officer's impression

I hope I'll be forgiven for chiming in again with the booty from another foray into Google Books, but I'm intrigued by the question originally asked, which is what the Army meant by a "moderate" mess kit.

Looking around at different documents, I'm getting the sense that, not suprisingly, the definition of "moderate" evolved over the course of the war.

Here are four mentions of mess kit:

First, Annals of the Fifty-Seventh Regiment Indiana Volunteers, by “A Member of the Regiment” 1868

“General orders from head-quarters also regulated the amount of baggage which each officer was allowed to haul. No line officer was permitted to have more than eighty pounds— this to include all his personal effects, such as clothing, mess-chest, cooking utensils, &c. It is a noticeable fact that, during the first year of the war, our line officers used mess-chests which exceeded in size the one used by Gen. Washington when he was commander-in-chief of the American army.

“At the time of which we write [Spring, 1862], almost every officer of the line was provided with a large trunk, and we could mention instances in which a single officer carried one dozen shirts. Such inconsistencies, indulged in throughout the entire army, necessitated the use of immense trains, and these impeded the progress of troops when in campaign.”

http://books.google.com/books?id=kUgIAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA44&dq=%22mess+chest%22&lr=&as_drrb_is=b&as_minm_is=1&as_miny_is=1861&as_maxm_is=2&as_maxy_is=1870&as_brr=1#PPA1,M1

As an example of the sort of panoply this might include, we have this discussion of a patent mess-kit for several officers:

Journal of the Franklin Institute, July 1863

"Mr. Howson, Chairman of the Committee on Meetings, exhibited T. Morris Perot & Co.'s improved Army Mess Chest. The case is made of convenient size for handling and transportation, and contains a sheet iron stove, illustrated in the cut. Within the stove is a case, which, when removed and placed in an inverted position on the top of the stove, forms an oven. The top of the stove can be removed, in order to take out the inner casing; and in the latter are packed the following articles:—one coffee pot, six cups packed inside of coffee pot, one salt box, dipper and ladle, one tea pot, one mess pot, one saucepan packed in the mess pot, one tea kettle packed in the saucepan and mess pot, six tin tumblers, lid of mess pot, one grater, twelve knives and forks in case, one pepper box, one frying pan, one gridiron packed inside of frying pan, with the top against the pan, six iron tablespoons, tinned, and six iron teaspoons, tinned, in case; six small basins, two wash-hand basins, six plates, (plates to be placed in the small basins, and these in the large ones); lid of saucepan; iron rack, to be placed on th'e lid of the boiler when closed; one tray, to be placed inside of tin dishes; two tin dishes, these with the tray to be placed bottom upwards, over the tea kettle and coffee pot; stove pipe on top of stove; draft regulator, to be placed between the pipes on stove.
The chest contains several large canisters, marked for tea, coffee, sugar, and butter, and a tray containing six Britannia mugs.

"A somewhat similar chest, without the stove, made by the same firm, was also exhibited. In this are two tripods, with a connecting rod, on which articles may be hung to cook over the fire. Either of the chests must prove invaluable to the medical department, for which they are intended, although they would answer equally well for officers, emigrants, and others."

http://books.google.com/books?printsec=titlepage&id=ZuQGAAAAYAAJ

It all sounds like rather a lot, but Perot's kit receives mention in a number of publications.

A little later in the war we have this from the AOP on the Peninsula:

The Heroes of Albany, Rufus W. Clark, 1866

CAMP NEAR CITY POINT, VA., ON JAMES RIVER, July 4th, 1862.

My Dear Sister MARY—Your letter reached me to-day, at four P. M., and to-night, the night of the glorious Fourth, I sit down on the top of my little mess chest, made out of a cracker box, to write an answer to you.

http://books.google.com/books?id=nM0TAAAAYAAJ&dq=%22mess%20chest%22&lr=&as_drrb_is=b&as_minm_is=1&as_miny_is=1861&as_maxm_is=2&as_maxy_is=1870&as_brr=1&pg=PA152&output=text

Still later in the AOP we have this:

Three years in the Sixth Corps by George Thomas Stevens – 1866

"At five o'clock on the morning of June 19th [1863], we were again on the march, reaching Fairfax Court House before noon. Again our train was overhauled, baggage reduced, and teams sent to the rear. By this time the train began to assume more reasonable dimensions. General officers were strictly forbidden the use of ambulances, henceforth all ambulances were to be used for their legitimate purposes, and general officers and their staffs were to get along with a more reasonable amount of baggage, while regimental officers were to be allowed only the most limited amount of transportation. A single small valise only was the extent of baggage for each regimental officer, and a mess chest of the size of a cracker box, was to be the allowance for all officers of a single company."

Based on this small number of examples, it would appear that a "moderate" mess-kit on campaign evolved from large, elaborate, and heavy in the early war, to a cracker box for each officer a little later, to a cracker box for several officers still later.

By "cracker box" I assume both authors using the phrase mean a hard tack box. Large as it might seem, "mess kit" often seems to refer to food and condiments as well as utensils and cookware, so it's small enough. Officers were expected to buy their own food and until 1864 needed to pay in cash if they wanted to purchase from the Commissary. But that's a different subject...

Even so, penury would not seem the invariable rule. A Harper's article from 1865 mentions General Thomas dining with silver and china during the Chickamauga campaign, and Irwin's Seeking the Bubble has "General Bulger" rolling out with several wagons for his head-quarters late in the war.

Just to round things out, I've attached two patents for mess kits. Neither are necessarily for officers. The first also serves as a bake oven and dates from the war. The second is a proposed enlisted man's kit from the 70's, but it is first described by the inventor in a work called "The Army Ration" published during the war. What's interesting about the latter is that it's based on curved metal plates hung on either side of the canteen, based on a "stove" made of canteen halves that the author saw in use. It suggests that strapping a canteen half on your canteen is no mere reenactorism.