sack coat color

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: sack coat color

Hallo!

Correct...

It is NOT about adding red pigment or dye to the blue to get "purples."

I was talking about the differences between the behavior of light color mixtures (additive color) and the behavior of pigment or dye mixtures (subtractive color).

The absorption of light by material substances follows different rules from the perception of light by the eye. So, light color behaves differently than
pigment or dye colors.

Curt
Farbenmeister Mess

[Gallinipper]

Re: sack coat color

If you can get your hands on it, you might also want to read the fine CMH article on the subject. There were a LOT of variations in hue and even in materials used.

[CompanyWag]

Re: sack coat color

About 10 years ago, John Wedeward sent me this image of various original sack coats at the National Museum. It shows a lot of color variation in original coats - most of you that have examined original coats have noted similar degrees of contrast, I've seen it myself.

Although, I have never seen one as light as the one indicated in the original post. I would condemn that one and chalk it up to a learning experience.

I believe the photo credit on this image actually belongs to Paul McKee.

Thanks Paul; you are correct. I took that photo back in 1986 on one of four visits to the Smithsonian for sack coat research. I shared my photos with Wedeward who was not present on any of those visits. I certainly wish I had the photo equipment and lighting I have now to have done the subject justice.

The 4th sack coat from the left just happens to be a Schuylkill Arsenal piece and is the lightest color of the lot. Although it is the lightest and brightest wool I have ever seen on an original, it is nowhere near so bright and electric a shade as the subject repro one. Incidently, this original SA sack coat also had several other construction features that would be considered out of the norm as well.

Paul McKee

[Doughboy]

Re: sack coat color

Having done a close survey of the SA sack that Paul mentions I would concur that it is nowhere near the "electric" blue of the one in question, just a light shade of indigo. If memory serves, it is a characteristic of true indigo that it darkens as it ages, not lightens.
Only sack I have seen that color was worn by RatBoy at Averasboro many many moons ago. He had to put up with his share of abuse for it too!
Christopher Wilson

[J.H.Berger]

Re: sack coat color

Thank you gentlemen, that answered my question.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: sack coat color

Hallo!

As Herr Craig mentioned...

He could dye it darker.

(Intact, it would dye the lining as well. However, the lining could be removed, the body dyed, and the lining reinstalled.)

Curt
Richtiger Farbenmeister Mess

[J.H.Berger]

Re: sack coat color

Curt, that is true, perhaps he will give it a try. By the way it is not really "electric blue" it depends on the light of course. A good tint draker and it would be a fine indo dark blue.

[toptimlrd]

Re: sack coat color

I noticed some here used good reproductions as a comparison base for this coat. My suggestion is to compare it to originals which are easily found in museums today. Since I believe the coat in question is in Europe it may be beneficial for someone to send Herr Berger a high resolution picture of an original (if I had one handy I would). Remember, every time we copy a copy, there is always something lost in the reproduction.

Now for what it's worth, the picture seems to show a fabric that is a bit off on the color but I don't know how much of that may be the quality of the picture more so than the fabric.

Just a suggestion.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: sack coat color

Hallo!

Yes lighting and one's monitor can make radical differences in color range and intensity.

Lads may want to adjust their monitors:



:) :)

Curt
Farbenmeister

[ScottCross]

Re: sack coat color

As Paul McKee mentioned, the images on John Wedeward's web site were not taken by Weed, but by Paul McKee himself...Weed was not even present, but I and Brain Baird were. There is indeed a wide variety of shades in Fatigue Blouses that we examined at the Smithsonian and in other private collections, but nothing that light of a shade and "Bright" of a blue.

[Clark Badgett]

Re: sack coat color

My suggestion is to compare it to originals which are easily found in museums today.

Could you please advise of a museum where one or more original sack coats can easily be viewed? So is the Smithsonian gonna love it if I walk through the doors and politely ask to "ooh and aah" over the selection of Federal uniforms? Last I remember it was getting harder to look at original artifacts in detail with out a specific and new reason to do so.

[ScottCross]

Re: sack coat color

Could you please advise of a museum where one or more original sack coats can easily be viewed? So is the Smithsonian gonna love it if I walk through the doors and politely ask to "ooh and aah" over the selection of Federal uniforms? Last I remember it was getting harder to look at original artifacts in detail with out a specific and new reason to do so.

Clark,

Depending on your location there are other institutions, that have Federal Fatigue Blouses in their collections, that may be closer than the Smithsonian. Yes, it is getting harder to get into out National Museum, unfortunately. Rock Island Arsenal Museum has one, Milwaukee Public Museum has one, and I think the Quartermaster Museum in Petersburg, Virginia has one. I am sure there are others, but those are just a few that pop into my head at the moment.

[PanzerJager]

Re: sack coat color

Clark,

Depending on your location there are other institutions, that have Federal Fatigue Blouses in their collections, that may be closer than the Smithsonian. Yes, it is getting harder to get into out National Museum, unfortunately. Rock Island Arsenal Museum has one, Milwaukee Public Museum has one, and I think the Quartermaster Museum in Petersburg, Virginia has one. I am sure there are others, but those are just a few that pop into my head at the moment.

Some other please I can think of is the Gettysburg museum and the Harrisburg civil war museum both have sack coats in their collections. I know Pamplin Park also has one on display and there are a few in the west point collection as well. I always wonder how many are still tucked away in small historical societies and back rooms we don't even know about.

Regards,

[ScottCross]

Re: sack coat color

I always wonder how many are still tucked away in small historical societies and back rooms we don't even know about.

Regards,

That reminds me, there is one in Dayton, Ohio at the Montgomery County Historical Society that I saw a number of years ago. I think the Camp Dennison Civil War Museum near Cincinnati, may also have one.

[CompanyWag]

Re: sack coat color

Chicago Historical Society used to have several, but I know they did some major housecleaning a number of years ago for a more "focused" collection.

Paul McKee