Examples of civilian/military vests

[2nd Lt. Samuel Teague]

I begin by saying my apologies in the event that this has been asked before, but I was hoping to improve my impression with a vest of the appropriate style. I was hoping those of you with far more access to information could tell me where I could do my research for this project. I know that it has been discussed that waistcoats are difficult to discern due to the fact that most photos were taken with closed coats, but there must be some catalog or something out there that could tell me more. Please help me out, as I want to look the best I can for the public.

~Matt Wood

PS- Admins, if this is a repeat, please remove this post. Thank you.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Examples of civilian/military vests

Matt,

Are you looking for a vest that can do "double duty" as both a military and civilian garment? If so, US or CS?

Thanks!

[Annette Bethke]

Re: Examples of civilian/military vests

I have several images of civilian vests on my website at http://www.txcwcivilian.org/id117.html, also at http://www.txcwcivilian.org/id90.html under "period images"; look at both the men and groups.

Here are some originals on page 4

http://www.dotphoto.com/Go.asp?l=netnet81&P=&AID=5766063&T=1

[2nd Lt. Samuel Teague]

Re: Examples of civilian/military vests

Yes, on a clarification note, I would be looking for a vest that would do double duty and I currently only have a CS impression. If any of that extra info helps, also thank you for those of you who have already responded.
~Matt

[Annette Bethke]

Re: Examples of civilian/military vests

I'm not versed in military wear but wouldn't any civilian vest work since many CS soldiers used at least some civilian pieces? Depending on what state and what time in the war?

[10TnVI]

Re: Examples of civilian/military vests

Since vest were not an issue item-all so called "military vest' were actually civilian,so any type will do for most any impression. The only controling factor would in situations where a command specified only certain styles were appropriate. I've yet to come across this case myself with the exception of some Zoave units where the vest is part of the uniform style.
The 'military vest' style was just that, a style designed for a 'military look', usually with more buttons than typical civilian to allow it to be buttoned closer, since it was as much a utility item as a fashion item.

[GarrettG1993]

Re: Examples of civilian/military vests

Since vest were not an issue item-all so called "military vest' were actually civilian,so any type will do for most any impression. The only controling factor would in situations where a command specified only certain styles were appropriate. I've yet to come across this case myself with the exception of some Zoave units where the vest is part of the uniform style.

Yes,
However there is always the modified jacket. There is a surviving Tait jacket that was modified into a vest. The sleves were removed and an exterior pocket added. But, for the most part, those were proably rare. And I do not recall if that was a postwar modification or not.

Regards,
Garrett Glover

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Examples of civilian/military vests

Here is a set of original vests worn by Pvt. John Speck of the 39th Battalion Virginia Cavalry.

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12757&d=1229656741

I believe both were made at home by a family member, from scrap cloth laying around...if you look closely you'll see the grain of the cloth in each panel does not match in the vest on the left. The vest at right is heavily pieced. The vest at left, made from a slubby light blue jeancloth, is a shawl collar civilian style vest.

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Examples of civilian/military vests

Brian,

Great pics, & brings an issue to light.

That there is very little in the way of piecing in reproduction garments as a rule. When there are some very good examples of pieced items , both US & CS, that could be a nice addition to ones kit .

Some other clothing items that are notes as being pieced :

Page Lamphams trousers, MOC, The one pocket "ear" is pieced ( I believe it is the left hand pocket).

The A. Smith Jacket at the Atlanta Hist. Center, The undererarms are pieced up by the arm pit & the one side of where the body meets the collar is pieced ( did survey of this coat back in 1999, very neat jacket).

The Jacket at Mansfiled SHS in LA is pieced down one side and features closed up buttonholes on the right front exterior pannel ( did a survey of this jacket in 2002).

US Mounted Great Coat capes on occasion are seen pieced on one side or the other due to their length.

Some US Dress Frocks have some small amounts of pieceing encounterd along the reenforcement strip that covers the body/skirt seam ( Randall Pierson of San Jose CA pointed this oput to me on a survey he did of an original US Frock &I have noted this on some other I have viewed)

It is interesting to note that a good amount of piecing on military garments is kept to the areas of the garment that are usually not seen readily (Facings, Undersleeves, Etc . This is not a hard and fast rule, but a general observation.

At any rate....... those vests pictured are Very cool , I especially like the one with the different directions of the warp. It would be neat to see a repop produced showing this.

Don S

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Examples of civilian/military vests

Don,

I agree with you 100% on lack of piecing found in reproduction garments. When Dan and I get together to cut kits I'm always bugging him to include pieced facings...something that would be neat to see worked into the construction of one of our kits but we never included instructions on it. It might be confusing for some people.

As far as those vests go, they are a part of a stellar CS grouping and the owner was kind enough to let us study them last November. The rest of the collection includes Pvt. Speck's jacket, broad-fall trousers, hat, overcoat, canteen, suspender (only one!), money belt, cravat, English mess kit and cover, saddle-bags, holster, sword belt and pistol cartridge box full of battlefield pick-ups such as bullets, grape shot, and a small pen made from a quill. You'll get a kick out Speck's clothing in particular...

The owner has allowed us to share the images and discuss the collection with others on the condition that no reproductions are made. However with what can be termed "unusual" patterning and cloth used in the garments, I don't think anyone would be able to accurately repop them.

You can find more pictures and info here: http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...ighlight=Speck

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Examples of civilian/military vests

Hallo!

Since vests were not items of issue on either side, one's choice in a vest either as a Private Purchase or Sent From Home item can come down to one's vision and desire for a fashion statement to be made.

NUG, we sometimes tend to see the more so-called "military" vest because of its standing collar and button-to-the-neck, but IMHO civilian styles are intriguing on both sides.



Or the 134th IL in Columbus, KY, 1864:





Curt

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Examples of civilian/military vests

Hi Brian,


It is interesting , I know on occasion Charlie Childs will have a pieced facing in a kit once in a while already sewn to make a complete kit piece.

Once in a while I have been able to include a pieced section or two on a customers clothing items when appropriate. I think it adds to the persons over all impression (when appropriate) personally speaking.

The Speck uniform is really neat, I love odd ball patterning, It is a fun challenge to copy those types of detail. Thanks to you & Dan for sharing the pics!

The Mansfiled Jacket is simmilar in its oddness in patterning. It has long darts in the body and a very pointed bottom to the back of the jacket , further it is lined in the front with cotton flannel, with the rest in cotton drill. Further the jacket originallhad branch of service tape ( Sky blue woll tape) on the epaulets and collar. The epaulets were cut off and the collar was coverd over with yellow cotton by the soldier when he transfred to the cavalry

Here are some pics of a copy of the jacket I made for Bill McKown of TX of the jacket in the original issued configuration with cavalry trim.

Don S

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Examples of civilian/military vests

Curt,

Great pics of the men in the various vest. I especially like the first pic with the unique tie.

Don S

[CompanyWag]

Re: Examples of civilian/military vests

Curt,

Great pics of the men in the various vest. I especially like the first pic with the unique tie.

Don S

Also looks like a 15th Corps badge on the vest peaking out under his coat as well. I've seen a number of 15th Corps images with that odd sort of tie being worn looped around a paper collar.

Paul McKee

[lukegilly13]

Re: Examples of civilian/military vests

Here is a set of original vests worn by Pvt. John Speck of the 39th Battalion Virginia Cavalry.

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12757&d=1229656741

I believe both were made at home by a family member, from scrap cloth laying around...if you look closely you'll see the grain of the cloth in each panel does not match in the vest on the left. The vest at right is heavily pieced. The vest at left, made from a slubby light blue jeancloth, is a shawl collar civilian style vest.

I noticed the Spec vest doesn't seem to be topstitched. Is this the case or have the threads deteriorated and lost thier tension and now I can't see it on the picture? Just wondered if this added to the oddity (or was it common practice to not top stitch the button closure?).