Confederate Knapsacks

[JohnnyReb42k]

Everyone knows that there are certain kanpsacks that can be used for a ANV impression. Some of those include the Kibler, Pritchard, Issac and Campbell. The one I want to focus on in particular is the Kibler Knapsack. I know it has been a hot topic of discussion on these forums for a long time, but it never seems to answer my questions.

The Kibler is know to be a variation of a Mexican War style bag. The only documentation of that style bags use is in the 10th VA by James A Kibler. If we go by strict documentable evidence, only those with a 10th VA impression can wear them. But what if we use our critical thinking skills. By doing that, common sense tells us that not only the 10th VA would have those bags.

My question is this. Was this bag one that came from the depot system? Would it be acceptable to use this pattern of bag on units other than the 10th VA?

[1842musket]

Re: Confederate Knapsacks

Joshua,
I was down at the MOC a couple of weeks ago and examined the Kibler knapsack. I can not answer with certainty that this was a depot produced vs. a locally manufactured item. Many pre-War Militia organizations both North and South contracted with local community Harness makers/manufactuers for accoutrements and other gear, and a good portion of the extant accoutrements, knapsacks, etc. are items produced perhaps for one company of 100 men from a specific area vs. a Government produced item intended for 1000's of men. The CS Government also relied on local manufacturers to supplement the production of the Depots, many times as sub-contractors.
That being said, there are other extant CS copies of the Mexican War Knapsack, and this was obviously a type being produced in large quantity by the CS Government for the various CS Field Armies. My gut feeling is that this is an example of a CS Government produced article, although perhaps by a local sub-contractor. The Kibler pack has un-dyed straps while other similar packs haved black-dyed straps, so perhaps this is a short-cut taken by the maker? Again, only a theory I have, not hard and true documentation. Anyone else care to chime in?

I hope this helps,
Larry McIrvin

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Confederate Knapsacks

I have never understood the logic behind the Kibbler being only used by the 10th VA. Is there something about the history of this pack that I missed?

[DougCooper]

Re: Confederate Knapsacks

Larry is right, this argument completely ignores the economics of army contracts. No contractor makes a single knapsack (Mr Kibbler's) or a even regiment worth (10th Virginia) ...he or she makes thousands and other contractors make still more thousands. This may be done over time and variations are normal. The need was great for knapsacks, that is why a number of similar CS examples based on the Mex War design survive. But they were a consumable, and were consumed - this particular knapsack is the only known one of it's EXACT type, but asa Larry says there are many more like it.

Hopefully, like vests, hat cords and bullseye canteens, the mantle of "not PEC" will soon be lifted from Pvt Kibbler's knapsack. Maybe we can work on gaiters and period design quilts and comforters next... :wink_smil

[luthhaning]

Re: Confederate Knapsacks

Joshua,

Many good comments have been made by earlier posters. I have examined the knapsack you mention as well. Other examples do exist. I will speak to one of them issued to Pvt. Johnston 1st Va. Artillery. You asked about this style pack only being used for the 10th Va impression and I think that question can be answered. Johnston and Kibler were each in the second corps but were in different divisions; Kibler being in Johnsons' div while Johnston being part of Rhodes division(mid war). We cannot account for changes of assignments etc. but I think it suggests that very similar items were issued to men (in the ranks so to speak) in very different units. According to family accounts Johnston stated that he was issued the pack by the "government" along with other food and clothing items. I feel that these were contract items issued by the central government in some numbers. In what numbers we may never know. I hope this helps even though I know it is not a difinitive answer. Research of this nature is rarely absolute. I would always caution you against anyone who leads us to believe they have the final word. The research should never end; as one answer found usually reveals 2 more questions. As a side note Johnston according to family stories brought the knapsack home after his surrender at Appomattox. I am not certain about Kibler's he was captured late in the war and was sent to Delaware along with some of his pards. He did survive the war and lived until 1929.
Tim Welch
L.D.Haning and Co.