Palmer Bands For Euroarms Enfields

[5th Texas]

Although I am going to carefully read all 57 pages of "The Monster Enfield De-Farb" thread, I am going to ask this question:
After all has been said and done, what is the consensus as to the most efficient means to convert the Baddeley Patent bands that come on Euroarms Enfields to the correct Palmer type?
(I would have thought that someone would have just started making them by now...)

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Palmer Bands For Euroarms Enfields

Hallo!

Once Upon a Time, one's choices were to try to find a near matching set of originals, or take the flawed route of trying to file down the 4th Model bands to look like 3rd Model bands. (Plus some lads tried to modified M1863 Springfield bands).

That changed a few years ago, when Armi Sport started offering their P1853 4th Model Enfields with 3rd Model barrel bands (incorectly color case hardened though). And places like Taylor's were offering them separately as parts.
I am behind the times as IIRC, I paid $115 for three of the AS bands back in
2001. Check with them as to price and availability.

All in all, the Italian 3rd Model bands, when the random shoulders are cleaned up, and they are either struck bright or heat blued, are the most "expedient" choices due to the scarcity of nearly sized match originals and their price (I paid $50 each over ten years ago).
IMHO, filing down 4th Model bands always looks bogus and like filed-down
3rd Model bands.

Curt

PM me, I may have a spare set lost in the Mess Piles somewhere.

[musketbal]

Re: Palmer Bands For Euroarms Enfields

Hi
I had the same problem with my Euroarms enfield. When it was defarbed by James River Armory, they replaced the originals with the Palmer type that were off of a Amisport enfield. I filed the shoulders to make them more pronounced and like the originals. Hope this was of help.

Brent Conner

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Palmer Bands For Euroarms Enfields

Yeah, this is a legitimate problem with the Euroarms. You can see in Brent Conner's photos the Armi Sport bands don't fit all that well on the EoA. And as Curt points out the ground down Baddeley bands never quite resemble Palmer bands because there is just not enough metal around the base of the barrel band, even filed it appears too short and stubby.

You can sometimes find original contracter Palmer bands that will fit the EoA, but the best possible solution is to sell your Euroarms P-53, and get an Armi Sport. It is 2 lbs lighter, easier to defarb and has the Palmer bands (more or less). The quality is about the same these days.

[5th Texas]

Re: Palmer Bands For Euroarms Enfields

Thanks for the responses. I can see from the photos that the "shoulders" of the bands don't match the stock very well, but I suppose Armi Sport bands are the best option (short of selling my gun, which was otherwise adequately defarbed by John Zimmerman).
Is any re-shaping of the stock or bands needed to make the Armi Sports fit the Euroarms?

[musketbal]

Re: Palmer Bands For Euroarms Enfields

From what I remember, there was very little or no alteration done to the Amisport bands other than some filing to bring out the ridge on the band. I have an original Palmer band that is a middle band, however it fits on the euroarms as the 3rd band. The repos are larger than the originals. The stock was reshaped as well as other changes to make it appear closer to an original than when it was new 28 years ago. Good luck.
Brent Conner

[rlhardingjr]

Re: Palmer Bands For Euroarms Enfields

Howdy everyone..,

One possibility that is out there for reproduction Palmer style bands are the ones produced by The Rifle Shoppe in Jones, Oklahoma. At least they are offered in their massive catalog of parts, etc. Craig Barry and I have discussed TRS before as he has purchased parts from them. I have purchased a M1816 Type I bayonet from them. It was finished but had to be fitted for use on my Pedersoli. Unless they offer finished parts, you will have to fit and finish them yourself. I am toying with the idea of ordering the Type 3 Enfield barrel bands. If I do, I will let you know what I run into. Unless anyone out there has been down this road and talks me out of it - I will give it a try.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Palmer Bands For Euroarms Enfields

Hallo!

I have never tried the Rifle Shoppe's bands, but...

When I started retroverting Enfields in 1987 the choices were either to get original bands and try to roughly "match" a random set of three (originals vary in size), or use the castings offered by, IIRC, Blackley & Sons in England.

They came unfinished with the fine sand cast mold texture, and seam lines, and required drilling out and threading, along with making the screws and screw stops. And then polishing (and heat bluing if not left bright.)

The "issue" remained the same- the Italian barrels and stock are oversized, making most all original bands or castings of original bands either ill-fitting or too small.
When using orignial bands on the Italian reproductions, even with radical forestock removal, it still required the inside radius of the top of the band be ground down to better sit on the repro barrel even when the band was sprung and adjusted with the screw. For the smallerish bands, there was only so much metal that could be removed, and the relationship between the repro barrel, the forestock, and the inside radius of the band often meant that the interior and exterior shoulders of the bands did not fit 100% as they should and often stick up a bit.

Plus, depending on who made the repro castings, if they used original bands as the "male," the resulting "female" mold suffered from shrinkage thus producting a slightly smaller band than the original master- which further complicated the problem of smaller bands on the larger Italian repro's...

Curt

[rlhardingjr]

Re: Palmer Bands For Euroarms Enfields

Curt..,

This was the kind of information I was looking for. You have probably saved me (and everyone else) not only money and time, but a whole heap of frustration as well. My sincere "Thanks!" for sharing your experiences of a road already well traveled. ...And so it goes.

Rick Harding
Morehouse Guards
3rd LA Association