Soap on campaign

[lojafan]

Re: Soap on campaign

I'm gladly astonished by the number of posts in a short time! It's very surprising and I'm very humbled at the knowledge and time put into some of these posts!:D
I look forward to more that may come!
So far we have concluded that "lye soap" is the most common and also that it should be called "soft soap, yellow soap, hard soap, etc." instead of "lye soap" for historical purposes. We also have an origional manufacturer for those who wish to use a manufacturers lable.
All that is left to figure out is how it came to the soldiers, how it was issued and what form did it come in!

Thank you very much!

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Soap on campaign

Just a couple of more comments... I usually search Google Books in spans like 1840-1870, which covers articles close enough to the war to have immediate value. But be that as it may, it only turns up one more hit for "lye soap" vs., say, four or five for "pine tar soap."

Harpers has a wonderful article in 1866 called "The Ethics of Adulteration" with interesting information on the manufacture of, among other things, soap. This article underscores the earlier point about all soaps having some sort of alkali, often made from the ashes of various plants, but it's not so prominent a feature that anyone seemed to want to emphasize it, or perhaps was so universal that no one cared to.

About the form of issue, if for no other reason than to cut down on paperwork the Commissary of Subsistence would want to issue rations for more than one day. The company provision return (No. 13) states on the bottom: "Provisions should ordinarily be drawn for a period of from five to ten days at a time." For soap, this would result in an issue of about three or six ounces per man -- not much, but still more than a sliver.

But that would assume it got issued at all. There was also a provision for commuting rations not drawn, and soap might be one of those things that more often than not ended up contributing to the Company Fund.

For what it's worth, the Subsistence Department valued soap at five cents a pound (Revised Regs, page 249). I suspect this represents a pre-war wholesale cost -- perhaps one of our citizens knows offhand what kind of soap you could get at that price?

[DocReynolds]

Re: Soap on campaign

Can't say for sure what saop soldiers might have had, but IF the sutler had it, there aer some brands that were available:
Capri Castile Soap Adria Co
Best soap B.T. Babbit
Burgess Soap
"French Lustral Soap" (Fay Brothers)"Florida War Soaps" Muraay and Lantman
Yes: Proctor and Gamble was around
West India Bay Company
Among other companies.
The infor comes from "Sutles and Their Wares, by Francis Lord.

Pete Bedrossian
150thNY/3rd NC

[Hank Trent]

Re: Soap on campaign

For what it's worth, the Subsistence Department valued soap at five cents a pound (Revised Regs, page 249). I suspect this represents a pre-war wholesale cost -- perhaps one of our citizens knows offhand what kind of soap you could get at that price?[/SIZE][/FONT]

Not much help, but a small store near us (in the town of Gallia Furnace, rural southern Ohio) was selling soap retail in 1863 at the following prices, according to the daybook:

1 b[ar?] soap .12
2 bar .25
soap castile [no quantity listed] .15

A report from the Richmond Markets, July 19, 1843, so presumably wholesale prices:
"Soap.--For brown 4 a 6 cts. per lb.; white and variegated 12 a 14." So the subsistence department price would be right in the middle for the brown soap, though those prices were twenty years earlier.

Here's an 1858 "wholesale price list" from "William Johnson, inventor of the original walnut oil soap" in New York. Lots of kinds listed, though unfortunately per gross rather than per pound. "Transparent cake soap" is by far the cheapest at $1.75, but no way of knowing the size of the cakes, with prices running up to $18 per gross for iodine soap. The only thing priced per pound, barbers' shaving soap, is 15 cents.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[PetePaolillo]

Re: Soap on campaign

What about soaps possibly being sent from home in packages for soldiers? We know that some soldiers received packages from home. Is there any documentation of soap being made out of goats milk, olive oil or other ingredients other than lye at that time?

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Soap on campaign

Peter,

I believe if you read the above discussion...you'll find that 'lye' is only a partial component to this, and that the fats (i.e. lard, oil, milks...etc.) could vary.

I'm thoroughly enjoying the discussion above!!

Paul B.

[PetePaolillo]

Re: Soap on campaign

Peter,

I believe if you read the above discussion...you'll find that 'lye' is only a partial component to this, and that the fats (i.e. lard, oil, milks...etc.) could vary.

I'm thoroughly enjoying the discussion above!!

Paul B.

Paul,

Thanks for the reply. I should have been more clear in my question. I think I missed some of the posts. I thought I read them all, and I am enjoying this discussion as well. I was just wondering if they made soap without the lye, with some of the ingredients I mentioned and if they added natural fragrance as well? Lye is just too rough on my sensitive skin:D

[PogueMahone]

Re: Soap on campaign

Peter,

Really, go back and read the thread. You missed this:

One term which is a modern term which has become attached to any "less processed soap" is to call it "lye soap." In soap processing, all soap is a combination of a hydroxide with fat so, if we consider all hydroxides "lye," then all soaps are lye soap. A very mild soap like Ivory still uses a hydroxide in its processing.

To say that lye soap is hard on your skin is saying that Ivory Soap is hard on you. Is your skin softer than a baby's butt? How do you keep from melting in the rain?

[PetePaolillo]

Re: Soap on campaign

Joe, I am not a chemist..I know nothing of levels of hydroxides..so now I joion you in the confusion..I know I dont use store bought soaps except on hands, I found some great olive oil soaps and goats milk soaps that are nice and wanted to bring out to events but they are scented and just was not sure of the time frame relativity of them. They have absolutely no chemicals or lye as you say.... Oh and I find ivory dries out the skin considerably, Most Moms do not use Ivory on their babies, just ask them..... I like to have nice skin, Its not just for women:D...Oh and I was looking forward to meeting you at ATL this weekend sorry you missed it!!

[Hank Trent]

Re: Soap on campaign

ALL soap (generally speaking) contains lye. It's one of two ingredients. The other is fat. So soap can't be made of goats milk or olive oil instead of lye. The fat in the goats milk or olive oil would replace some other fat, but wouldn't replace the lye.

Saponification is the chemical process where the fat and lye combine to create, well, soap. If you leave out the lye, you're just rubbing yourself with fat and making a greasy mess. If you leave out the fat, you're just pouring lye on yourself.

If soap has more fat than lye, that's not bad, since the left-over fat that doesn't react to the lye moisturizes the skin.

If the soap has more lye than fat, that can be irritating, since the left-over lye is harsh on the skin. So just don't use soap that's been poorly measured and/or not given time for the chemical reaction to be completed.

Lye soap is not some scary skin-eating chemical monster. It's a poor and apparently mostly modern name for what would otherwise be called plain soap without any unnecessary dyes, perfumes or other additives.

If the question is what kinds of other soaps were available in the period, the wholesale list I linked to above gives some ideas. Another detailed discussion of soap in the period is in the 1854 U.S. Dispensatory, which discusses the two kinds of lye, soda and potassium, and the various fats used in different soaps.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[Abrams]

Re: Soap on campaign

If soap has more fat than lye, that's not bad, since the left-over fat that doesn't react to the lye moisturizes the skin.

If the soap has more lye than fat, that can be irritating, since the left-over lye is harsh on the skin. So just don't use soap that's been poorly measured and/or not given time for the chemical reaction to be completed.

This has turned into a truly interesting topic.

I do not know soap making, but I am familiar with the lye part. What Hank relates here is 100% on. Soap that contains more oil or fats will be easier on your skin, as there will be no excess lye left in the soap to irritate the skin.

In chemistry class (many years ago) my teacher warned us while handling a strong Sodium Hydroxide solution to be careful to not get it on our hands. We would know we had, when our fingers would become slippery, like having soapy water on them.

What was happening, was the Sodium Hydroxide would leach the oils and fats from our skin, making soap, or at least its precursor. Left long enough on the skin, enough oils and fats would be consumed to make your skin red and scaly, and you could actually develop a chemical burn that was slow in healing.

So the nice mild soaps many people prefer, just have more oils than the lye can bond with, and possibly glycerin and other skin-friendly materials and scents, leaving no free lye in the soap to leach the oils from your own skin.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Soap on campaign

Pete, you could indeed get soap from home and sometimes folks in desperate straights found more creative ways. I am reminded of this passage in McElroy's Andersonville:

I was taken up to Wirz's office. He was writing at a desk at one end of a large room when the Sergeant brought me in. He turned around, told the Servant to leave me, and ordered me to sit down upon a box at the other end of the room.

Turning his back and resuming his writing, in a few minutes he had forgotten me. I sat quietly, taking in the details for a half-hour, and then, having exhausted everything else in the room, I began wondering what was in the box I was sitting upon. The lid was loose; I hitched it forward a little without attracting Wirz's attention, and slipped my left hand down on a voyage of discovery. It seemed very likely that there was something there that a loyal Yankee deserved better than a Rebel. I found that it was a fine article of soft soap. A handful was scooped up and speedily shoved into my left pantaloons pocket. Expecting every instant that Wirz would turn around and order me to come to the desk to show my handwriting, I hastily and furtively wiped my hand on the back of my shirt and watched Wirz with as innocent an expression as a school boy assumes when he has just flipped a chewed paper wad across the room. Wirz was still engrossed in his writing, and did not look around. I was emboldened to reach down for another handful. This was also successfully transferred, the hand wiped off on the back of the shirt, and the face wore its expression of infantile ingenuousness. Still Wirz did not look up. I kept dipping up handful after handful, until I had gotten about a quart in the left hand pocket. After each handful I rubbed my hand off on the back of my shirt and waited an instant for a summons to the desk. Then the process was repeated with the other hand, and a quart of the saponaceous mush was packed in the right hand pocket. Shortly after Wirz rose and ordered a guard to take me away and keep me, until he decided what to do with me. The day was intensely hot, and soon the soap in my pockets and on the back of-my shirt began burning like double strength Spanish fly blisters. There was nothing to do but grin and bear it. I set my teeth, squatted down under the shade of the parapet of the fort, and stood it silently and sullenly. For the first time in my life I thoroughly appreciated the story of the Spartan boy, who stole the fox and suffered the animal to tear his bowels out rather than give a sign which would lead to the exposure of his theft.

Between four and five o'clock—after I had endured the thing for five or six hours, a guard came with orders from Wirz that I should be returned to the Stockade. Upon hastily removing my clothes, after coming inside, I found I had a blister on each thigh, and one down my back, that would have delighted an old practitioner of the heroic school. But I also had a half gallon of excellent soft soap. My chums and I took a magnificent wash, and gave our clothes the same, and we still had soap enough left to barter for some onions that we had long coveted, and which tasted as sweet to us as manna to the Israelite.

Several things seem worth noting in this. Besides the fact that McElroy had some big pockets, it's interesting to find soft soap shipped in a box, and in a place like Andersonville. Seems to have been fairly caustic, too, so I guess I wouldn't recommend whatever brand it was, but according to the Dispensatory that Hank linked to, that shouldn't surprise up for "soft soap."

[Jim of The SRR]

Re: Soap on campaign

"P.T. Jacksons, Stewart County [GA], soap factory produced 1000 pounds per week for the State.


from Rich Man's War by David Williams

Jim Butler

[PetePaolillo]

Re: Soap on campaign

A lot of great info. I have learned much...Here is some info about some of the Hand crafted soaps out there that are available and that I have used. It is very interesting stuff.

The true fact is that modern handcrafted soap, though necessarily made with lye to get true soap, has no lye in the final product. It has all been reacted with the oils to form soap and glycerin.

A curious fact about modern soap is that most common soap found in the grocery store made in mass-produced factories does have a small amount of excess alkali in it. Also, it has had all of its naturally-occurring glycerin removed so it can be sold as a separate commodity. Why? Greater profit. An important difference between most commercial soap and our Real Handmade soap is that the glycerin is left in Real Handmade Soap and thus it retains its natural moisturizing property.

Does all soap contain Lye?
No! A well-made, superfatted soap does not contain lye (sodium hydroxide).
This "old wives tale" started because the alkali, sodium hydroxide, is used in the manufacturing of soap. It is necessary to use a strong alkali as a reagent during saponification -- the chemical reaction that changes fats and oils into soap and glycerin. Once saponification is complete, however, you are left only with soap, glycerin and a bit of skin-loving superfat.

The reason the Real Handmade Soap is gentle to the skin is because of the glycerin content. Glycerin is a natural by-product of the soapmaking process.
Commercial manufacturers remove it because it "gums" up the milling machines and because it is a valuable commodity that can be sold to the cosmetic and other industries. Real Handmade Soapmakers do not remove the glycerin. because glycerin is a "humectant" which is a category of substances that attracts moisture. What this means to you is that soap with glycerin actually moisturizes your skin. Soap without glycerin dries it out. Glycerin is also what creates the lovely, silky feel that people typically associate with Real Handmade Soap.



http://www.realhandmadesoap.com/index.htm

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Soap on campaign

All:

Let's rememember the importance of who provided soap to the Army not just how it was made... Soap was important enough on campaign that the Union Army contracted with companies like Procter and Gamble of Cincinatti, Ohio to supply soap and candles to the Union Army.

You probably used one of their products today...

http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=969

All the best- Johnny Lloyd:wink_smil