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brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

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  • #1

    brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

    I have been looking around on here and other referebces, but I have come up a little short. I am inquiring about any research that shows that brass eyelets were installed on enlisted Mens Jefferson Booties, either issued or added later. I contatced Bob Serio and this was his response.

    "Pete, there were hand eyelet setters and brass eyelets available prior to the Civil War. If you have the correct size setter and the correct size eyelets it is a simple job. I have heard of some excavated Jefferson bootees having eyelets but I HAVE NOT SEEN THEM. Could eyelets been added? Yes. A small eyelet is best, something with a interior diameter hole about 1/8 inch. Ciao, Robert"

    Does anyone have any other info? I know they existed then. I know that Civilian shoes and officer shoes sometimes had them. I was considering adding them to mine and I wanted some more research to support it. I have used the search threads and did some searches. If this has been discussed, Mods feel free to remove or attach associated thread. Thanks for any info:)
    Last edited by PetePaolillo; 07-30-2009, 08:30 AM. Reason: grammar
    [SIZE=0]PetePaolillo
    ...ILUS;)[/SIZE]
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

    I am not sure how common enlisted federal bootee's with brass eyelets would be. The 1858 bootee pattern did not have them, the contractors were more worried about the lowest bid and if the inspectors were not looking for them, then why would they have been added. The only assumption I could make for the excavated ones would be either early war existing stock type purchase or later private purchase items. I do know there were commercially available work boots at that time that did have them, and the British issue boot also had the brass eyelets, but the cut of both uppers would differ from standard issue bootee's.
    Eric Stephenson

    [URL="http://www.military-historians.org/"]The Company of Military Historians[/URL]
    [URL="http://lodge245.doylestownmasons.org/"]Doylestown Masonic Lodge No. 245 Free and Accepted Masons[/URL]

    "Captain Dike is in the hands of some brother Masons, and to the Order he owes his life." OR s.I v.II

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

      I am not sure why a question about the possibility of brass eyelets on US issue Booties has turned to a thread about CS soldiers possibly being barefoot or not.... If anybody has anything constructive to add regarding my original thread question, I would appreciate it. My inquiry was generated because a respected reenactor suggested it. I also would like to help preserve the life of the shoes and laces but only if it would be period correct and ocumented. Thanks for any help:)
      [SIZE=0]PetePaolillo
      ...ILUS;)[/SIZE]

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      • #4
        Re: brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

        I'll see if I can find an old email either NS***** or Joe Hofmann sent me related to NS***** shoes, but it definitely talked about eyelets on footwear from our period of interest. We've gone to a new computer system here at the hospital, so I fear most of my older messages have "migrated," but I'll try.

        Now, my fuzzy memory isn't connecting the dots on whether that was discussing private purchase "camp shoes" or an issued bootee. Whether eyelets were available wasn't the question; whether they were on contracted military shoes was, if I'm reading the thread correctly.

        Regards,
        Paul Hadley
        Still Just A Beginner on the A/C Research Squad
        Paul Hadley

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

          I would assume that the eyes are pulling. The best I can say is to reinforce the eyelet area with a light piece of leather behind the edge and punch new holes. I am not sure if brass eyelets would have accomplished the desired effect either. I have also seen pairs that have ripped out and a buckle and tab has been riveted or sewn to the upper. This may be a better solution, as it is a more plausible field repair.
          Eric Stephenson

          [URL="http://www.military-historians.org/"]The Company of Military Historians[/URL]
          [URL="http://lodge245.doylestownmasons.org/"]Doylestown Masonic Lodge No. 245 Free and Accepted Masons[/URL]

          "Captain Dike is in the hands of some brother Masons, and to the Order he owes his life." OR s.I v.II

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

            Originally posted by FlatLandFed View Post
            Whether eyelets were available wasn't the question; whether they were on contracted military shoes was, if I'm reading the thread correctly.
            Paul you are correct that is my question. If you can find your references I would appreciate it.

            Originally posted by estephenson View Post
            I would assume that the eyes are pulling. The best I can say is to reinforce the eyelet area with a light piece of leather behind the edge and punch new holes. I am not sure if brass eyelets would have accomplished the desired effect either. I have also seen pairs that have ripped out and a buckle and tab has been riveted or sewn to the upper. This may be a better solution, as it is a more plausible field repair.
            I am not having any problems as of yet, since they are only a few weeks old. I am trying to do something proactive to prevent that kind of damage in a period correct way, but I do appreciate the repair advice.
            [SIZE=0]PetePaolillo
            ...ILUS;)[/SIZE]

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

              Hallo!

              Not really relevant, but as an example of an officer's shoes, here is an image of an officer in the 114th PA wearing shoes with brass eyelets (lower corner of the image).



              Curt
              Curt Schmidt
              In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

              -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
              -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
              -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
              -Vastly Ignorant
              -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

                Authentic Campaigner
                http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showpost.php?p=95004&postcount=38


                The fella in the front does not have eyelets in his shoes. I love this image and anytime I can use it, I do.

                I know we find images of enlisted me in either boots or booties. I have never looked for specifics, so I will continue to pour over the federal images for eyelets.
                Mitchell L Critel
                Wide Awake Groupie
                Texas Ground Hornets

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

                  Hallo!

                  Moderator hat off...

                  You were referencing this lad's shoe in the image?



                  If so, I thought i would just put it up...

                  Curt
                  Curt Schmidt
                  In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

                  -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
                  -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
                  -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
                  -Vastly Ignorant
                  -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

                    Curt,

                    Thank you for taking your mod hat off to post that image...that is the shoe I was talking about!
                    Mitchell L Critel
                    Wide Awake Groupie
                    Texas Ground Hornets

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

                      Back to an earlier question, soldiers would have some choice about what kind of shoes to draw if the quartermaster had both pegged and sewed. Among the quartermaster reports in Series III, Vol. 5 of the ORs is a complaint about sewed bootees from the AQM of one of Sherman's corps, who states that men would never draw sewed if they could get pegged. Hand-sewed were apparently the standard before the war, and considered superior to pegged, but I guess that with the introduction of machine-sewed shoes the quality fell off.

                      Soldiers on the march could go through shoes pretty quickly, but the number of at least Federal troops in fixed positions increased over the course of the war so in some cases shoes would last long enough to require a variety of repairs. I have seen journal entries for costs of half-soling, for example. But I have never seen any mention of modifying shoes with brass eyelets.

                      As Mr. Smotherman points out, soldiers had a monthly clothing allowance ($3.50 rising to $4 late in the war for northern volunteers), and could buy clothes from their own resources (I think late war bounties explain a lot of private purchase items we see in '64 and '65).

                      If I really wanted an answer to the original question, I'd go on Google Books and do a search for shoes and brass eyelets in the appropriate time period, and I suggest the inquirer do so. Be careful with the search terms, though -- brass eyelets were also used in offices, in conjunction with "eyelet machines" to bind documents.
                      Michael A. Schaffner

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

                        Originally posted by Pvt Schnapps View Post
                        If I really wanted an answer to the original question, I'd go on Google Books and do a search for shoes and brass eyelets in the appropriate time period, and I suggest the inquirer do so. Be careful with the search terms, though -- brass eyelets were also used in offices, in conjunction with "eyelet machines" to bind documents.

                        Michael, Thanks. I did use that source previously and did several searches. I came up short as far as enlisted Mens' government issued or contract booties having brass eyelets installed on them when issued or installed afterwards. ...There is no question that brass eyelets existed as I have found shoes of the civilian variety as well as officer private purchase for the time period....I am begiinning to regret asking though:(
                        [SIZE=0]PetePaolillo
                        ...ILUS;)[/SIZE]

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

                          Originally posted by Hank Trent View Post
                          To the topic at hand, has anyone followed this trail back?
                          http://www.robertlandhistoricshoes.c...t/Detail?no=14 Robert Land claims to make

                          Though he references the pair in Echoes of Glory mainly for the hobnails, do they have metal eyelets too? Is there anything in EOG about their provenance? I don't have EOG, so can't look it up.

                          Hank Trent
                          hanktrent@gmail.com
                          Hank,
                          Thanks for the help. I too have seen this. I was really trying to track down info on US issue, US contract though, not the English imports. As far as EOG, I will have to double check tomorrow when I get off work. I do not believe there was a reference to the eyelets in there though.
                          [SIZE=0]PetePaolillo
                          ...ILUS;)[/SIZE]

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

                            Hallo!

                            Moderator hat off.

                            "Well, y'know, people here care."

                            We care enough to take coal to Newcastle, it seems.

                            EOC does not cite the provenance of the "Imported English shoes" having two paired eyelets and a pull tab at the rear and says:

                            "English craftsmen fabricated this square-toed version of brogan-style shoes from fine English leather, adding hobnails."

                            The Confederate implication, IMHO, is that they are blockade-run imports rather than British army used shoes.

                            The page is referenced (174) only for photography credits.

                            Borrowing from Bob Serio's website at Missouri Boot & Shoe, he offers a reproduction of this "British import Blucher" shoe as CS-3:



                            Curt
                            Last edited by Curt Schmidt; 07-30-2009, 05:51 PM.
                            Curt Schmidt
                            In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

                            -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
                            -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
                            -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
                            -Vastly Ignorant
                            -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

                              Originally posted by Doughboy View Post
                              Hank,
                              I tried much earlier in the thread to apologize for a carelessly loose statement. Again you can continue to beat but the horse is dead. I misspoke.
                              I wasn't clear. I did not make an historical claim, I made a conjecture OK?? Never is a figure of speech. Do I believe a LOT of people NEVER wore shoes? No. Wearing shoes ONCE makes that comment inaccurate, clearly.


                              OK. What else do you want?


                              Christopher Wilson
                              If you have nothing to add regarding this thread topic then there is no point in posting here. Please refrain! take it to PM.
                              Last edited by PetePaolillo; 07-30-2009, 06:17 PM. Reason: toned it down
                              [SIZE=0]PetePaolillo
                              ...ILUS;)[/SIZE]

                              Comment

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