brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

[PetePaolillo]

Re: brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

Pete, I sent you an PM asking for your email. I will send you a lot of research into the quartermaster system and shoes.

Please show me your evidence that they did exist, i would be very interested.

Eric, I sent you the email...and I never said they existed. I said there was a possibility and that was where I was at in my research, That is all I have ever said, go back and read it.

[PetePaolillo]

Re: brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

This thread has, unexpectedly, achieved a metapysically recondite plane. It may have no end, ever.

David,

:D I hear that...I think I am going to tear out the eyelets in my modern shoes , because I will never be able to look at them the same way again. Research is emotionally painful.

[estephenson]

Re: brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

Same here Pete, but I think I will install them in all my shoes. I am sorry if anything was taken the wrong way. I sent you an email, let me know if you get it.

[PetePaolillo]

Re: brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

Same here Pete, but I think I will install them in all my shoes. I am sorry if anything was taken the wrong way. I sent you an email, let me know if you get it.

Eric no sweat. forget it water under the bridge..It's the Italian and Cherokee blood in me. I heat up fast but I also cool down fast as well. I will check my mail. Thanks

[AZReenactor]

Re: brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

In an attempt to help keep this inquiry by Pete focused and useful I've moved the unrelated posts over into the sinks.

Hopefully it helps some...

[PetePaolillo]

Re: brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

Troy, I appreciate this. Thanks for the help to me and those interested in something seemingly so insignifigant. I have been doing a lot of reading and I have not given up on this topic.

[Citizen_Soldier]

Re: brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

Greetings,

It makes sense that a military contractor may choose not to use patterns, materials, or construction techniques that would make the manufacturing process more expensive. However, it would be difficult to apply this arguement to examples of extant material culture such as Federal issue contract shirts that have a breast pocket, multiple button placket, and are produced out of a colored all wool flannel in comparison to the 1851 shirt (which appeared to be standard) which had a less complicated pattern, fewer buttons, and no breast pocket. If Federal inspectors would not allow variance in patterns than how did these shirts (identified as contractor made) make it into the quartermaster system? If inspectors were allowing contract variances in shirts, haversacks, shelter tents, and etc...couldn't there be variation in Federal issue shoes as well?

Pete, when you spoke with Robert Land did he have any provenance to the "late war contract issue booties" that he reproduces?

I'm not making the arguement that brass eyeletted shoes would be appropriate for portraying "issue shoes" in public interpretation but I think historians need to be open to the idea that with the variety of contractor pattern differences such shoes *could* have been an issue item. It's certainly a subject that deserves more attention and I look forward to reading more on this topic.

I infer that brass eyeletted shoes *could* have been issued in the following situations:

1.) By state goverments to state militias in the early years of the conflict.

2.) If a shoe manufacture already producing brass eyeletted footwear had "X" number of shoes on hand for the commercial market and sold them to the military.

3.) If "Manufacturer X" had brass eyelet technology in thier factories and wished to maintain brand integrety by offering a more durable product.

4.) Imported shoes from looted southern warehouses or from captured blockade runners.

Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable wearing brass eyeletted shoes for interpreting a Federal impression unless I could document civilian sources for footwear for the scenerio and time period. An example, might be troops coming back from furlough.

Additionally, I have the question of why did the Federal goverment go to brass eyeletted shoes in the post-Rebellion years if non-eyeletted shoes were seen as a waste of resources and served only a decorative function?

This post isn't meant to be arguementative, I'm just trying to move the discussion along a little more. Pete this a great topic, thanks for introducing it to the forum!

Darrek Orwig

[PetePaolillo]

Re: brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

Greetings,

It makes sense that a military contractor may choose not to use patterns, materials, or construction techniques that would make the manufacturing process more expensive. However, it would be difficult to apply this arguement to examples of extant material culture such as Federal issue contract shirts that have a breast pocket, multiple button placket, and are produced out of a colored all wool flannel in comparison to the 1851 shirt (which appeared to be standard) which had a less complicated pattern, fewer buttons, and no breast pocket. If Federal inspectors would not allow variance in patterns than how did these shirts (identified as contractor made) make it into the quartermaster system? If inspectors were allowing contract variances in shirts, haversacks, shelter tents, and etc...couldn't there be variation in Federal issue shoes as well?

Pete, when you spoke with Robert Land did he have any provenance to the "late war contract issue booties" that he reproduces?

I'm not making the arguement that brass eyeletted shoes would be appropriate for portraying "issue shoes" in public interpretation but I think historians need to be open to the idea that with the variety of contractor pattern differences such shoes *could* have been an issue item. It's certainly a subject that deserves more attention and I look forward to reading more on this topic.

I infer that brass eyeletted shoes *could* have been issued in the following situations:

1.) By state goverments to state militias in the early years of the conflict.

2.) If a shoe manufacture already producing brass eyeletted footwear had "X" number of shoes on hand for the commercial market and sold them to the military.

3.) If "Manufacturer X" had brass eyelet technology in thier factories and wished to maintain brand integrety by offering a more durable product.

4.) Imported shoes from looted southern warehouses or from captured blockade runners.

Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable wearing brass eyeletted shoes for interpreting a Federal impression unless I could document civilian sources for footwear for the scenerio and time period. An example, might be troops coming back from furlough.

Additionally, I have the question of why did the Federal goverment go to brass eyeletted shoes in the post-Rebellion years if non-eyeletted shoes were seen as a waste of resources and served only a decorative function?

This post isn't meant to be arguementative, I'm just trying to move the discussion along a little more. Pete this a great topic, thanks for introducing it to the forum!

Darrek Orwig

Darrek,
thanks for the post. Robert told me that he based his late war contract boot on an original, either he had or saw some where, that I am not sure. What he told me was that there was no inspectors stamps anywhere on them but the pattern and stitching matched contract records. The brass eyelets on them were argued by some as showing that the originals were in fact work boots and not contract boots. He was great to talk to and had I asked more of the right questions when I spoke to him, I probably would have much more info to share with you.

Bob Serio also says that there were excavated contract booties with brass eyelets although he had not seen them. I am not sure where that info came from. I will have to call him again this week and press him for some more info.

[tmattimore]

Re: brass eyelets on enlisted mean's Jefferson Booties

It is probably un authentic and anecdotal. But when the grave at Glorietta was discovered and opened lo and behold one of the Confederates was wearing a pair of federal type brogans with sewn soles and brass eyelets.
Tom