Wooden Buttons on Type IIs

[CSchneider]

Re: Wooden Buttons on Type IIs

Brian,

Rich and I examined the May half awhile ago, and indeed, it has a full compliment of wooden buttons that are very similar to those seen on several C.S. pieces. From a previous discussion on C.S. use of shelter halves:

Quote:
Originally Posted by cprljohnivey
I know Craig Schnieder has some information about CS issued shelter halves. Perhaps contacting him. I believe he has even made a few and they are smaller than the U.S. varieties if you can believe that.

Just the Alfred May shelter half, and there's plenty of debate as to exactly what it is and who made it (in fact, we had two curators doing the "Its Confederate! No its Federal!" debate in front of us when we went to see it). Made of three pieces of rather coarse cotton duck, entirely handsewn, wooden buttons that match those seen on a couple Confederate garments, and yes, its a good bit smaller than the halves listed in Gaede's book.

-Craig Schneider

[fahnenschmied]

Re: Wooden Buttons on Type IIs

Rich,

Holy cow, the May shelter half has wooden buttons? I have never seen a close-up of it before and assumed that it had darkened bone buttons. Not to hijack the thread, but is the May shelter half CS produced or captured Federal? That cloth looks like some osnaburg I've seen in CS garments.

I went to see and measure this tent a few days ago.
Yes, it has wooden buttons - in the online photos I thought they were darkened bone too. The cloth is heavier than what I'd call osnaburg, its at least an eight ounce canvas, maybe heavier, flull of flubs and flaws. Canvas has doubled threads in the warp and single in the weave. These buttons look like the ones on the Richmond depot jackets and are apparently sewn on with the same thread that the buttonholes and hems are sewn with.
It doesn't really conform to a "type" from the Federal Shelter Half book. It is made of what was probably 28 1/2 wide canvas, vertical seams, with an 8 or 9 inch wide strip down the middle, like the Federal ones made from drill. Completely hand sewn, with very large stitches, about three to the inch. Corner reinforcements are small, about 3". It still has cotton ropes on all corners, and a neat soldier modification of a center bottom rope, poked through a hole made just above the hem.
The buttons are a little too large to fit (easily) through the buttonholes - but it would button to a federal one. I measured it (without stretching, of course!) as 59 by 60 inches, but I am sure this loosely woven cloth has shrunk over the years, it must have been close to the standard 63 by 66 1/2 when new.
If you saw it, with all 23 of those nice four holed wooden buttons....which I have only seen on Richmond Depot jackets...and really crude cloth....you just might think...this isn't Federal issue.. But we have all been told that the South never supplied them. In this case I'll believe my eyes for the moment....

[Mike Ventura]

Re: Wooden Buttons on Type IIs

See Ken Knopp's latest post in the Cav folder - a a CDV of a Pvt in the 11th VA Cav wearing a RD with wooden buttons - dated 1861. It's the 4th post on page 2

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26173&page=2

[FloridaConscript]

Re: Wooden Buttons on Type IIs

not a richmond jacket, but wooden buttons none the less.

http://www.angelfire.com/ga2/PhillipsLegion/lavender.html

[PanzerJager]

Re: Wooden Buttons on Type IIs

This one just popped up on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/Early-War-Confederate-Ambrotype-of-Very-Young-Soldier_W0QQitemZ170446958328QQcmdZViewItemQQptZArt_Photo_Images?hash=item27af6e2ef8

Regards,

[poilu1917]

Re: Wooden Buttons on Type IIs

To bring back an old thread, here is an new article with some interesting info on this topic: http://www.blueandgraymarching.com/a...-wooden-b.html

[Doughboy]

Re: Wooden Buttons on Type IIs

Original wood buttons from MOC:




According to 1896 donation records, this button was worn by a soldier at “Pickett’s Charge.”
0985.13.1596 – Wooden button carved by a Confederate prisoner at Point Lookout.
0985.13.1599 – Button made by George B. Stout for use on soldiers jackets. Provenance is from 1905 donation records and no further information is known about George Stout.

What this goes to show is there were multiple variations on the wooden dish buttons in use in the period

[Dan Limb]

Re: Wooden Buttons on Type IIs



Here is a photo of Barney B Cannoy, the last commander of Company F, 4th VA, the "Grayson Daredevils". The buttons in his type II look like wooden dish buttons.

Dan Limb

[poilu1917]

Re: Wooden Buttons on Type IIs

Here is a quote I just found in a letter written by Leut. Irby Scott of the 12th Ga Infantry near Orange C.H., VA. It was dated Sept. 10th, 1863:

"Tell mother I will get all the buttons I can which are eagerly sought after by all the soldiers for the coats we get have wooden buttons. If I cannot get any you need not trouble about them for I can hace those on my old coat put on, as I will have no use for that when I get the new one."

In his previous letters (and some afterwards) he references drawing from the government for clothing and shoes. Pretty interesting.

[poilu1917]

Re: Wooden Buttons on Type IIs

The following was taken from the Memoirs of David Washington Pipes of the Washington Artillery (ANV). He had just joined the command in Caroline County, Virginia during the fall/winter of 1862 when he wrote the following:

"As a new man I was presented with a new uniform, kind of a blue gray and a misfit, the jacket had wooden buttons and the material was shoddy."

[poilu1917]

Re: Wooden Buttons on Type IIs

Here is an excerpt from another letter. This one was written by Sgt Robert Parker of the 2nd Va Cavalry near Culpeper CH on May 26, 1863:

"... It is English cloth. I could, if I know, draw him a pair of pants, but guess he does not want any. The coat has no metal buttons on it, so if he wants such he had better bring nine with him to put on it. We have a chance to draw any clothing we wish. You need not be uneasy as to my clothes. My coat hasn't a break in it. I am doing quite well as to clothes, have as many as I can take care of..."

Though it doesn't specifically mention wood buttons on this English army cloth jacket (note it was issued prior to Gettysburg), one can assume after looking at the previous quotes, existing original jackets, and images it is most likely what was on the jacket at this time.

[poilu1917]

Re: Wooden Buttons on Type IIs

All,
The following images are a photo study on the topic of Richmond Wood button styles. I am not certain where all of the images included originally came from (many were actually from this thread) so hopefully no one takes offense to my posting them again here with annotations. The purpose of this is to help visualize what the most common wood button may have looked like on a Richmond Depot garment. I hope some find this useful.

[poilu1917]

Re: Wooden Buttons on Type IIs

Here are two additional original images showing wood buttons similar to the possible "Richmond" style of my previous post. One was found online and the other was provided by R. Serio. I also added a better reference to the larger original image showing the trouser variant (Petersburg).

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Wooden Buttons on Type IIs

Great analysis! Thank you for posting!

[poilu1917]

Re: Wooden Buttons on Type IIs

Here is another original image that was just sent to me with a possible RDII jacket with the distinctive "Richmond" style wood buttons.