How much does it all weigh?

[Masich]

Say boys:

Has anyone out there taken the time to accurately weigh their gear?

I'm working on a book detailing the march of the California Column across Arizona in 1862, and would like to include information on the equipment of the infantrymen, such as the weight of a fully-loaded knapsack with blanket, including a change of drawers and two shirts, stockings etc., but without overcoat; the weight of all gear (including full canteen, haversack w/ 10 days rations, cartridge box w/ 40 rounds, and all the usual issue gear prescribed by regulations); 1855 rifle musket, etc. The California Vols wore fatigue uniforms and the uniform hat without trimmings. The only non regulation item that would have to be factored in is a sheath knife (possibly the Riflemans knife but most likely a buthcher knife w/ leather sheath.

One of the reasons this is important to my story is that one company of the First California Infantry mutinied because they were ordered to perform all drills with fully packed knapsacks, in order to condition the men for their desert trek.

All of us have been asked by the public, in classrooms, museums, or in the field: how much does it all weigh? What do you say? (and how did you arrive at the answer?)

Thanks for your help boys,

Andy

[JohnTaylorCW]

Re: How much does it all weigh?

Hi Andy,

A good place to look is an article (under Links: Articles) from the O.R.s entitled "an Experiment with knapsack weight." The direct link is here:

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/local_links.php?action=jump&id=138

Hope that helps get you started.

John T.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: How much does it all weigh?

Andy

I am thrilled anybody east of the Sierras would so much as think of the contribution of the Dept of the Pacific.

I assume you are basing this off of the ORs:

I. Each soldier will carry one greatcoat, one blanket, one forage cap, one woolen shirt, on pair of drawers, one pair stockings, one towel, two handkerchiefs, one fine and one course comb, one sewing kit, one piece of soap, one toothbrush.

II. Each soldier will wear his uniform hat without trimmings, one blouse, one pair trousers, one pair stockings, one woolen shirt, one pair drawers, and may wear a cravat in lieu of the leather stock.

III. Each soldier, whether of cavalry or infantry, will have one canteen, one haversack, one tin cup. In his haversack he will carry one fork, spoon, and plate. He will wear a good sheath knife.

IV. Each company, whether of cavalry or infantry, will have only enough mess pans and camp kettles (in nests) for absolute requirements; also a few short-handled frying pans, some large tin pans in which to mix bread, one or two strong coffee-mills, a 6-gallon keg of vinegar, a few pounds of black-grained pepper, four axes, four camp hatchets, six spades, six shovels.

V. Officers will not take mess-chests, or trunks, or mattresses on the march. It is suggested that each mess of officers of not less than three be provided with to champagne baskets covered with painted canvas for their mess furniture. These can be packed on a mule. Their necessary clothing can be carried in a small hand-valise, or pair of saddlebags.

General Orders No. 3, Headquarters District of Southern California, dated February 11, 1862. General Carleton

Let me find a bathroom scale!

[Livingston Guards]

Re: How much does it all weigh?

Some troops traved lighter than others but J. B. Polley of company F, 4th TX wrote in his book “Hood’s Texas Brigade” on pages 72-73

“On the 8th of August [1862] the [Texas] brigade folded its tents, and shouldering its guns began the marching that, with but few rests, was to continue until December of that year. It marched light, each man having by this time learned what weight he could comfortably carry, and therefore, dispensing with all superfluities. Still, we could not reduce the weight to be carried to less than about thirty-six pounds. A gun weighed about ten pounds, the cartridge box, cap-box, bayonet and the belts and straps to which these hung, another ten, and the roll of blanket and tent, or oil-cloth, still another ten. Add to these the weight of the haversack, in which not only provisions but under-clothing and many other necessities were carried, and. the total, on a fair estimate, was never less than thirty-six pounds, and often went a little beyond forty. A canteen full of water weighed at least three pounds.”

[Masich]

Re: How much does it all weigh?

Okay boys, based on your feedback and period sources (Ordnance Manual, diaries, ordnance returns, Official Records, Scott's Dictionary) I've calculated weights for what I think a California Volunteer infantryman carried on the Arizona desert trek in 1862. Please take a look at this and let me know your thoughts (are the weights accurate? am I missing essential pieces of equipment or small stores?). How does this compare to other Civil War units and your own experience?

The weights below are represented in pounds. Only items specifically mentioned in orders or known to have been carried by California Column companies are included.

CLOTHING
0.25 hat (w/o trimmings other than worsted cord)
2.50 blouse (lined)
2.50 trousers
4.00 bootees
1.00 drawers (2)
1.00 shirts (wool) (2)
0.25 stockings (2)
0.05 cravat
5.25 greatcoat
0.25 forage cap

ARMS & ACCOUTREMENTS
9.25 1855 rifle musket
0.50 musket sling
0.75 bayonet
0.75 bayonet scabbard
1.74 waist belt and plate
4.00 cartridge box w/shoulder belt and plates
3.20 40 rounds (.58 elongated ball)
0.50 percussion cap box (w/caps)

OTHER EQUIPMENT
2.00 knapsack
5.25 blanket
0.50 haversack
5.25 ten days rations
4.00 canteen (w/ 3 pints water)
0.25 plate
0.50 cup
0.20 fork and spoon
0.25 towel
0.05 handkerchiefs (2)
0.05 combs (fine & coarse)
0.20 sewing kit
0.20 soap
0.05 toothbrush
1.00 sheath knife

TOTAL 57.5 pounds

Thanks for your help,

Andy

[PrettyBoyDonovan]

Re: How much does it all weigh?

'TOTAL 57.5 pounds'

The ideal equipment wieght of an army on campaign has usually always been around 60 pounds since Roman days, so this figure is right on.

[john duffer]

Re: How much does it all weigh?

I've only checked a couple of times. After an event in 2002 the difference between buck naked and fully loaded was 49 pounds. This included greatcoat and canteen water but no rations and only blank rounds. Earlier this year it was 42 pounds, rations this time but no greatcoat and no rounds period.

[Masich]

Re: How much does it all weigh?

John:

I found this piece on knapsack packing and weights very useful and would like the complete reference. When was the study conducted, and on what page in the OR's can the report be found?

Thanks again for your help,

Andy

Hi Andy,

A good place to look is an article (under Links: Articles) from the O.R.s entitled "an Experiment with knapsack weight." The direct link is here:

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/local_links.php?action=jump&id=138

Hope that helps get you started.

John T.

[KarinTimour]

How Much Period Socks weigh

Dear Andy:

The U.S. Sanitary Commission sock pattern says that a knitter should be able to get three pair of socks from a pound of yarn. Hence, each pair should weigh 1/3 of a pound or less.

There is a very common sock pattern which has been reprinted in many papers North and South. It is often entitled "Directions for Socks from the Army. Scott McKay has documented it in the Macon Georiga Telegraph and Confederate in 1864, J. Andrew White has documented it in the Louisville Journal in 1861 and Mark Jeager has seen it in a newspaper from Indianapolis, Indiana early in the war (Mark I've forgotten the date you found this).

Anyway, that pattern states that you should be able to get four pair of socks from a pound of wool -- hence, each pair of socks should weigh less than 4 ounces, or roughly 2 ounces per sock.

Hope that's helpful,
Karin Timour
Period Knitting -- Socks, hats, balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldiers Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

[Masich]

Re: How Much Period Socks weigh

Great stuff Karin. That's the sort of documentable data I'm looking for.

Thanks,

Andy

Dear Andy:

The U.S. Sanitary Commission sock pattern says that a knitter should be able to get three pair of socks from a pound of yarn. Hence, each pair should weigh 1/3 of a pound or less.

There is a very common sock pattern which has been reprinted in many papers North and South. It is often entitled "Directions for Socks from the Army. Scott McKay has documented it in the Macon Georiga Telegraph and Confederate in 1864, J. Andrew White has documented it in the Louisville Journal in 1861 and Mark Jeager has seen it in a newspaper from Indianapolis, Indiana early in the war (Mark I've forgotten the date you found this).

Anyway, that pattern states that you should be able to get four pair of socks from a pound of wool -- hence, each pair of socks should weigh less than 4 ounces, or roughly 2 ounces per sock.

Hope that's helpful,
Karin Timour
Period Knitting -- Socks, hats, balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldiers Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

[JohnTaylorCW]

Re: How much does it all weigh?

Hi Andy,

It's Series 1, Vol XXV/s Section 40. The ehistory site show it as page 488. Also start at page 555 of the same volume and keep reading, there seems to be some good discussion going on about what's being thrown away. This volume is part of the Chancellorsville campaign. The Report for Special Order 65 is dated March 7, 1863.

http://www.ehistory.com/uscw/library/or/040/0488.cfm

John T

[Masich]

Re: How much does it all weigh?

Thanks John--this is just what I needed.

Andy

Hi Andy,

It's Series 1, Vol XXV/s Section 40. The ehistory site show it as page 488. Also start at page 555 of the same volume and keep reading, there seems to be some good discussion going on about what's being thrown away. This volume is part of the Chancellorsville campaign. The Report for Special Order 65 is dated March 7, 1863.

http://www.ehistory.com/uscw/library/or/040/0488.cfm

John T

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: How much does it all weigh?

An early version of my article "Knapsack and Haversack Packing 101" (earlier than the one that's in "The Columbia Rifles Research Compendium") is online at:

http://www.columbiarifles.org/Articles/Blanketroll_Packing.html

This article examines the weight of a typical reenactor kit compared to what real soldiers carried, per the ORs.

[Masich]

Re: How much does it all weigh?

Good stuff Kevin. Have you ever weighed your equipment item-by-item? I'd be curious to compare your list to mine, which is based on Ord. Manual, Correspondence in ORs, weights of original gear, and some guesses.

Andy

An early version of my article "Knapsack and Haversack Packing 101" (earlier than the one that's in "The Columbia Rifles Research Compendium") is online at:

http://www.columbiarifles.org/Articles/Blanketroll_Packing.html

This article examines the weight of a typical reenactor kit compared to what real soldiers carried, per the ORs.