M1819 Breechloading Flintlock Hall Rifle

[Andrew Kasmar]

Does anyone make a reproduction of the U.S. RIFLE MODEL 1819 BREECHLOADING FLINTLOCK HALL? Thanks for any help.



Andrew

[David Fox]

Re: M1819 Breechloading Flintlock Hall Rifle

Although admittedly not the most approved of answers, one suspects The Rifle Shoppe in Oklahoma makes kits.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: M1819 Breechloading Flintlock Hall Rifle

Hallo!

Short answer yes, RIFLE SHOPPE makes a "kit" of the M1819 Halls Rifle.

Longer answer, is that much depends upon how one defines "kit."
What they offer is a collection of component parts, many/most being rough castings out of the mold that require sundry clean up, where needed drilling, tapping, threading, hardening and tempering, and advanced rifle-building tools and skills.

I would define their "kit" as a collection of "component parts" in their unfinished state.

Not a negative or criticism, as they offer wonderful options no one else dares...

Curt

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Re: M1819 Breechloading Flintlock Hall Rifle

Let me know when you get one, as we'll turn you into an 1830's Marine at our Fort Foster garrisons....

[moarkcav]

Re: M1819 Breechloading Flintlock Hall Rifle

At one time someone had made some repro hall carbines. I think Ft Scott has some. I would love to find one. I would also like an Aston Horse Pistol.

Not that this post was any help.

Chris

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: M1819 Breechloading Flintlock Hall Rifle

Hallo!

It is out of my memory so do not quote me on this...

IIRC, some time ago, Ordnance Park made a Hall carbine repro I have heard tell (but have never seen one).

(There was also some talk, (which I am hesitant to post due to the general policy against the low standards of Indian imports), that Loyalist Arms was going to import an Indian Hall rifle or carbine.
IMHO, I doubt that it is true. However, one can hand an Indian craft workers just about anything and they can "reverse engineer" and bang out anything from a fireplace wall hanger to a copy of an AK47 or Colt M1911 while you wait. The degree of quality or actual firearm dependent upon what you are willing to pay for what you get- and how talented and skilled the particular workers assigned that project were.)

I would restore an original myself, and save the money and/or the risk.

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt

[jake.koch]

Re: M1819 Breechloading Flintlock Hall Rifle

Have you checked with Zimmerman? When I was an intern at Harpers Ferry in 2005 they had a couple there that the park owned, and I want to say that he was the maker, although I am not positive. It may have just been a special order deal if he made them with the Hall Factory right there originally. Happy Hunting, I would love to have one myself someday, they are real neat weapons.

[Fenianboy]

Re: M1819 Breechloading Flintlock Hall Rifle

One of the State Museums in Maine is dedicated to Industry,It has a depictment of Halls being made cmplete with bins of Hall parts and some semi-assembled and assembled rifles.Sorry i can't remember the town.There was a University Campus there.In addition outside the Museum there was a life sized statue of that young girl who wrote to the Russians about Peace laying the groundwork for an historic meeting.She was later killed in a plane crash.

[David Fox]

Re: M1819 Breechloading Flintlock Hall Rifle

Were not Halls in fact the first truly interchangable-parts weapons...or machines of any sort?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: M1819 Breechloading Flintlock Hall Rifle

Hallo!

Yes...

Hall's M1819 rifles are a bit tricky as there were variations initially, and then between production 1830-1852 (followed by the M1841 percussion rifle variations, inclding M1841 breech block units in M1819's.. Hall got a contract and supervised the installation of the machinery and the manufacture at Harpers Ferry.
North, Deringer, Ellis, and Johnson received contracts, but only North actually delivered any.

Hall had a fit over the other four contracts fearing that the inter-changeability of the parts would be lost if anyone else did the work.

Carbines also have an even more complicated evolutions with several models largely due to the shift between Hall/North varieties and Hall varieties.

They were initially revolutionary in their day, but could be annoying due to gas leaks from around the pivoting breech block.

Curt

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: M1819 Breechloading Flintlock Hall Rifle

They were initially revolutionary in their day, but could be annoying due to gas leaks from around the pivoting breech block.

Curt

Is this a safety issue or a mechanical reliability issue. Would this be a problem when firing blanks?
I e-mailed Tim Prince about a original one, but with a price tag $3,000 for a flintlock Hall I think i am going to stick with a reproduction. If going with a percussion Hall, the price of a original is about $2,000. Which is not that bad for a original rifle. Thanks for all the replies so far.

Andrew

[tmdreb]

Re: M1819 Breechloading Flintlock Hall Rifle

A reproduction will not cost much less than an original, and you will be waiting a long time for it.

A friend of mine, who does post on this forum and may chime in, had a Hall carbine assembled from Rifle Shoppe parts by Loyalist Arms. I believe it was delivered about 6 years after it was ordered, due to the time it took to get the parts from The Rifle Shoppe. Of course, Loyalist isn't taking orders for custom guns anymore.

[David Fox]

Re: M1819 Breechloading Flintlock Hall Rifle

The Hall got a bad rep, chiefly during the CW when men were issued it in lieu of more modern weapons such as the Sharps. It's worth noting U.S. Army's Chief of Ordnance Talcott wrote in 1845: "The First Regiment of Dragoons when first raised was armed with carbines of this model, and they received the most unqualifed approbation.... I am practically acquainted with the use of Hall's arms, and assert unqualifiedly that if my honor and life were at stake and depended on the use of firearms I would sooner take one of these carbines than any other weapon. But fashions change and what is good today will be cried down tomorrow." (pp. 172-173 of Carl Russell's "Guns on the Early Frontier".) Tested in 1833 , a Major R.V. Mason of the new dragoon regiment comparing the Hall to the common U.S. infantry musket at the current French carbine, wrote: "I can, at a distance of 100 yards with this gun (the Hall), put more balls in a small target in 20 shots than either of the other can in fifty" (op cit, p.169). Being a chambered breachloader, all Halls could shoot "harder" than a muzzleloader with the same charge of powder and, in carbine form, could be carried slung muzzle down without fear the ball would migrate down the barrel.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: M1819 Breechloading Flintlock Hall Rifle

And I hear the breech block was handy in a bar fight...

[fahnenschmied]

Re: M1819 Breechloading Flintlock Hall Rifle

Some twenty years ago I have seen one of the Ordnance Park (?) replica Halls Carbines, when a fine group of Dragoons visited a little museum I worked at in Rayado, N.M. My impression of it was nice enough, but without the absolute perfection of finish found on an original Halls. Otherwise, it seemed like an original that had been carefully filed and polished and refinished. It functioned well, and was almost perfectly gastight, being new and carefully made.
Yes, gas tight matters with the Halls - if you have a sloppy fit on the block, even with a blank, your left wrist is going to get burnt. With an old worn out carbine, you quickly learn to make sure you drag the cuff of your jacket down over your wrist for that second shot...
With some gunsmithing they can be made tighter......

Dave