Innovative Interpretation for the PUBLIC

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Innovative Interpretation for the PUBLIC

Good points, Curt. However, I was referring to generating interest among kids in the ACW in a general sense, not *necessarily* recruiting them into the hobby. So, under the banner of innovative interp (presumably by the "Us" in the hobby), what can we do to get kids interested in learning more about the ACW?

[Benedict]

Re: Innovative Interpretation for the PUBLIC

And now for something (not quite completely) different:

Looking from a non-US point view: how could you get people interested in the Civil War, people whose history is NOT the American Civil War? You have to make / find some kind of connection, and in the case of Germany, you could start off by telling that a lot of "Germans" (at that time, there was no national state of Germany) immigrated to the United States because of economic and, especially after 1848, political reasons (Revolution of 1848). It would be best to give a few examples of the different "kinds" of German immigrants and German-Americans who made a career in the States (Carl Schurz comes to mind). The next question would be: why did German immigrants / second generation German-Americans fight in the war? This would touch the field of being grateful for their new home country / patriotism for a "real" country and also touch upon the difficult questions / terms of "Union" and Constitution, plus the less-"heroic" monetary and off-the-boat-conscripts. Not to forget the Confederate Germans!

Of course Germany is a special case because our history is overshadowed by a thousand years lasting twelve. But this is where you can generate interest: other historical eras are lesser known, especially pre-1933 and all the more the 19th century. But by tying a living history presentation to people who once lived in your region (especially in the southwest and north of the then-German "Bund") and then left to begin a new life somewhere (a place that still holds fascination today--the USA!), just to be somehow forgotten in the fatherland, might make things more interesting to ACW "outsiders" over here and create interest.

Of course the presentation cannot only consist of a scholarly lecture about 19th century German immigrants to America, but would need living historians playing a certain role (i.e. be able to walk the walk, talk the talk, and be open to questions) as well as things that go beyond the mere letters on a history book's page, e.g. posters, reciting from letters, reading aloud newspapers. Concerning the "soldier" part, there would have to be living historians in proper attire (I have only heard about mainstream reenactors giving presentations to the public here in Germany, but we decided not to go into the "Us vs Them") and with a proper knowledge of the everyday life of a soldier--something that has been touched upon already in this thread.

As Emmanuel pointed out in his post about the 1857 Christmas living history presentation, History / Historians these days tend to focus more on what we in German call "Alltagsgeschichte," everyday history--not from the perspective of Lincoln and Grant, but from the perspective of those who would be the equivalents of a possible audience: families, workers of all trades, a doctor, etc. By comparing back then and today, what was different - what has changed - what is similar - simply: how people lived, one is more likely to catch attention than, as has been said on this thread before as well, point to the different models of Richmond Depot jackets.

Just some thoughts from "over there" ...

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Innovative Interpretation for the PUBLIC

Hallo!

80% of the ability to solve a problem is the ability to understand the question.

:)

In that case we are doomed. :)

"History," is on the decline in Modern America both as a discipline and as a building block of knowledge and education.
Both as a result of a tri0le whammy of what is perceived as a boring method of teaching it (traditionally rote memorization of only famous names and dates); as a two decade long shift in national and state political and social opinion against education, against "intellectualism," and against public schools and teachers; and as a result of No Child Left Behind and various states' High School Graduation Tests leading to history being dropped from the curricula because it is not being tested for on the tests AND not a part of performance evaluations).

IMHO, the child, the kid, the young man or woman is not inherently interested in the more "noble" academic aspects of learning history for education-sake or for its very preservation and the hope that we learn enough (or not) from the mistakes of the Past not to repeat them.

Meaning, there is a "disconnection" between the dull, boring, and tedious "work" of history as an academic pursuit or intellectual pursuit to be able to make informed and responsibile decisions as a constructive and contribuitng member of society... and

a youth's view that the history (great, little, or none) in reenacting that IS
"living history" is worth the wait and the effort to get there and do (once they have seen that there is such a creature- I did not know there was "reenacting" for 12 years AFTER my interest bloomed in the ACWera, and my BA degree).

So, I see "exposure" and "contact" as the Number One on the list. Meaning a kid needs to see actual "reenacting" and perceives it at a basic level of having fun if not at a level that exceedes texting and tweatting and video games, at least competes with it and the other "stressors" and "roadblocks" of youth such as middle school, high school, friends, girls, clothes, CD's, DVD's, cars, organized or school sports, travel team sports, clubs, etc.

Which revolves again to the issue, or real need, to expose kids to the ACW at a level they can appreciate and see themselves doing.

And where we, in the CPHA and particularly HA segments of the CW Community must fail is that it is the very nature of the "History" the excludes the child and the youth from military life. (And even on the civillian side, excludes them from most anything other than being refugees or at some events as town folk [whatever that means for not boring a kid to death time and time again...].

IMHO, what does it take to make water flow uphill?

Perhaps, cynically and jadedly, the best we can do, is what we already do do (no pun intended)??

Meaning, it is a child born into a family that are reenactors and remain reenactors that expose, guide, and "flow" a child into an ultimate adult role of reenactor. Or, a family that values education and history that takes the famioly to see a reenactment, living history, or interpreted historical site where there are soldiers and/or civililians. Or a town parade or observance where soldiers in uniforms and with guns can be seen or approached.
Or a G or PG-13 rated Hollywood blockbuster or TV mini-series that generates both parental or child interest in the CW (or any era if just talking about reenacting).

What can we offer to a 12 year old to keep him interested, or around until they turn 18 (or a later age where they have the time and disposable income to travel and play)?
Especially in a segment of the hobby (C/P/H/A or H/A) that is NOT "child friendly" most of the time and at most of the places)... [Funnel them into the F or M community where they are, and hope to 'recruit' them later??]

Ain't gots an answer, but I think I can state the question.

;) :)

Curt

[Missouri Mule]

Re: Innovative Interpretation for the PUBLIC

Good points, Curt. However, I was referring to generating interest among kids in the ACW in a general sense, not *necessarily* recruiting them into the hobby. So, under the banner of innovative interp (presumably by the "Us" in the hobby), what can we do to get kids interested in learning more about the ACW?

This has been the most fascinating & enjoyable thread for me in quite some time!

I think we have a couple of different things going on here . . . . we have the "hobby" that entertains us and (on occasion) the spectators that get to watch us but we also have the educational and engaging aspect that (I think) is what John is driving at.

At the risk of sounding overly simplistic, "Us" need to make ourselves available to the educators, historic sites & parks that interact/work with school aged children and work on developing programs & presentations that develop & foster the younger generations into accepting the stewardship of our mutual American history -- specifically the ACW. Now what this ends up looking like is different for everyone -- that is, it is tailor-fit for each situation.

In order for this to be accomplished, "Us" is going to have to come out of the woods & share our knowledge.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Innovative Interpretation for the PUBLIC

Curt, you have stated very well the issues that have been concerning me for some time. In our "teach to the test" and "math/science" oriented indoctrination... er, I mean education system, history gets left out in the cold (alone with music, art, and, what was it? ...oh yeah, playing with other kids and learning how to interact with human beings).

In order for this to be accomplished, "Us" is going to have to come out of the woods & share our knowledge.

I don't know if I can say that "We" are not meeting our responsibilities or not. I don't know what everyone does outside of the "EFUBU" realm. The events we discuss here that have any opportunity to put us on a collision-course with the general populus are the LH's we do, mostly for the NPS.

HOWEVER, I would say that the "Collective-We" (meaning "Us" as a group) DO have a responsibility (IMO) to raise awareness of and interest in the ACW among the public, if not teach 'em a thing once in a while.

At the risk of being accused of espousing farbism...
It doesn't really matter that a kid understands that my coat is hand sewn. However, if seeing me sparks a tiny interest in the Civil War, or at least gives the child a sense that he or she owes his or her freedom and way of life to thousands upon thousands of men and women who sacrificed comfort, food, shelter, health, wholeness, freedom, and/or their lives, then I think I've accomplished something.

I can't say that "We" are any more passionate about history than the F/M croud. However, we certainly are the strict orthodox sect in the reenacting "religion" and our perspectives and experiences are very different. I would think (hope!) that this gives us a unique ability to connect people with their history and/or reach those who might not be reached in a classroom, museum, through TV, or at an F/M event.

For some folks, I think Pat's method of pushing folks out of their comfort zone might be effective. It depends on the intended audience and teaching goals, I think.

Thanks folks!

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Innovative Interpretation for the PUBLIC

Hallo!

"That drive to understand, to learn more, is what keeps us in the hobby, I’ll venture. It’s why we seek to know more about the material and experiential reality of the Civil War soldier. I think that by challenging the public with adventurous, bold, and even discomforting programming we might spark some of our same motivation in them."

True, as long as we make note that "we" and "us" reflect a segment of the CW Universe and not its entirety.

;) :)

But yes, to "involve" people in history is to strive to make it personal, make it relevent, and to make it interesting first at a level which attracts and then engages, and then at a level that furthers interest and involvement/participation of some kind and at some level.
Otherwise, it withers and dies, or at best retreats into a small minority of "torch bearers."

As I shared here or elsewhere, last month I returned to Colonial Williamsburg after a 35 year spell to find that their "model" for site interpretation of the poorly or theatrically costumed white haired docent guarding a house full of Period furnishings had moved on. And had evolved to
include living historians AND actors interpreting not only history but Life In the Past which also included a progressive and controversial "inclusion" of the Black free and slave experience as PART of that Life.

But at the same time I feel these pressures, weigh these concerns, and lament or fear one possible future for the CW Community, I believe we are perhaps talking about two forks in a road that hopefully leads to the same point. Meaning, talking about interpretation and presentation as a tool to attract, engage, and stimulate interest in the Past and History- AND how that can serve as a magnet to attract New Blood to replace what seems to be an aging, graying, and declining Hobby Base?

What is perhaps odd, in some ways, is a comparison with the WWI Community.
While plagued and beset by authenticity and historical issues a small "knot" of say 400-some active participants continue to ever-so-slowly grow their hobby. What makes that intersting is that it "works" in an environment where there are two events a year, in eastern PA, that has no public, and that has no real family involvement, and even rolls for women are limited to a literal handful of Red Cross workers behind the lines on both sides.
Outside of the two national events, there is pretty much nothing but a few individual group presentations, demonstrations, and "set ups" at air shows, etc.

Yet, they continue to thrive in their small numbers, and their limited (2) events confined to one site in PA, without a public, in a cost, time, and labor intensive environment of trenches, bomb proofs, and No Man's Land, and - and there always seems to be a trickle of new recruits and newcomers who find their way "in" to join and play.

My observation is that the WWI lads continue on, facing the same challenges, realities, and fears that we CW lads do, but seemingly WITHOUT the things we are discussing here or pulling our hair out to learn or discover?

IS it, perhaps, that "we" CW lads (and lasses) have been inside of a box so long, for over four decades- that we cannot actually, really, think let alone function outside of the box we have built for ourselves?

Curt

[McKim]

Re: Innovative Interpretation for the PUBLIC

Hallo!
IS it, perhaps, that "we" CW lads (and lasses) have been inside of a box so long, for over four decades- that we cannot actually, really, think let alone function outside of the box we have built for ourselves?
Curt

Ding, ding, ding.

Well I wish I had hours to spare so I could take the time to write a well thought out response but it is raining GeoTrax and crayons behind me as I write.

With two years back in the hobby (after a ten year hiatus) I have found the following... it's really just the same.

So what is different. Right Shoulder Shift, now done correctly makes me very happy. Uniforms have improved greatly with a strange twist. There seems to be a sizable population attending events for "dress-up."

Gotta be brief so here is a suggestion for something outside the box, I'll make it a two parts suggestion.

a. Prepare 3 days rations and seriously set to the task. Imagine a camp of 200 men, columns of smoke rising gently, the smell, the oneness of purpose. How many really know how to do this...I don't.

This offers several benefits, the spectators will see something interesting, we would learn something, those that already "really" know how to do this would enjoy teaching, and the guys who long for the campfire chats were the members are drinking water and eating period food, not drinking Coke and eating Snickers would be in heaven.

But this must be taken seriously and undertaken with patience and understanding...teach them right. Which really brings me to my point, if we don't take the time to teach ourselves right, what business do we have instructing the public?

Which brings me to part b.
b.= Business as usual...no focus on what we do. Cramming the entire 4 year experience of a CW into a two day event. We will still do the cooking demo, between 09:30 and 09:32.

Mr. Schmidt your experience with WWI may help me understand something, is the "box" our own burden or are we crammed into it by the event hosts? I am inclined to think much of it is due to the latter.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Innovative Interpretation for the PUBLIC

Welcome, Thad!!! Glad to see you on-board!

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Innovative Interpretation for the PUBLIC

Hallo!

"Mr. Schmidt your experience with WWI may help me understand something, is the "box" our own burden or are we crammed into it by the event hosts? I am inclined to think much of it is due to the latter."

At first I thought my father was suppopsed to answer, but he's not here...

:)

In the realm of introspection, I have personally belabored and bemoaned the Nature of the Beast from within the Belly of the Beast.

IMHO, the "box" is our own creation because:

We tend to fall into locked step and reenact reenacting, or at the least the traditions and cultures of reenacting. The further to the left one plays on the old F/M/C/P/H/A Paradigm, the more the culture being repeated endlessly drives events as well as individuals.
While that is a negative for the right hand Alphabet Letters, for the majority of the left hand Alphabet Letters that is what the vast majority "get into" to experience.
And to the greater extent, in any reenacted era, "they," "we," have their/our mainstream culture of what they want to experience, how, and when.

As a result, that is what event hosts and hosting units create, structure, and attempt to execute because THAT is what the participants want and expect. And decade after decade, they want the same thing.
(But, aside from a desire or expectation to see "the battle," the Spectating Public or Tourist has less of a "cultural" demand or bias they would impose upon the reenactors.)

Using the WWI lads as an example, as has had happened with Civil War lads, their "hobby" is segmented between a similar F/M/C/P/H/A model wherre the right hand Letters are the more "history-heavy" "authenticity-minded" living historians and the left hand Letters are more WWI culture mainstream "powder burners" and "trigger time" lads.

As what has happened within the right hand Letters of the CW Community,
there are lads who to keep using the cliches push the envelope and think out of the box trying to "inject" or add-on more history-heavy experiences for themselves apart from a raison d'etre of the Indian Rush or Kevlar Suicide Charge or large "insults" (one wag's term for daylight suicide assaults).

IMHO still, what has happened is that the movement toward more emulation rather than simulation of doable and desireable aspects of CW soldier (and civilian) life exists on pyramids created by a few in the hobby who think out of the box and who can organize and execute more history-heavy functions.
But I say pyramid because the higher one climbs toward the pryamid's history-heavy point, the narrower that portion of the pyramid is and the fewer and fewer folks one finds there. And the straw that can break the camel's back is that it is hard to "get the feel" of CW soldiering when not in a CW army of some size. And where it "breaks" is when having at best a company sized, platoon sized, or even squad sized endeavor eventually runs out of steam and interest (save for recruiting and Newcomers who find it exciting and unique when compared to where they came from).

So, yes, IMHO... faced with reenacting culture and tradition, we are obliged to be the change we want to see to escape the confines of the "box."
But the curse appears to be numbers and sustaining/sustained numbers, as many of those who can think and function outside of the box wear down, become cynical and jaded, and burn out.
Having burned out, they either quit entirely, migrate to the seeming "newness" of a different era, or turn around and go backwards back down the pyramid they have climbed.

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt

[Union Navy]

Re: Innovative Interpretation for the PUBLIC

Just to grab the tiller and change direction a little...

Back to the "relate to their experience" stuff. The vast history disconnect prevents even some of the "interested" from seeing how this event shaped the country they live in today. After all, how could something that happened so long ago affect them in any way. My kids are astonished to discover that things that happened before they were born have any significance whatsoever.

We know better. Some are familiar with the images from more recent conflicts, even up to the present day overseas contingency operations. But they don't seem to realize the vast marauding armies, streams of refugees, homefront deprivations, destroyed infrastructure, wounded veterans, ravages of disease and unspeakabe violence took place HERE, in their own country, sometimes in their own back yards. Drawing parallels between what they see on the news or online and what happened "then" might offer more chance for understanding.

The "Have you ever seen pictures/videos of...?" question may require stepping out of character, but they ain't going to hear about it at school. I might just start keeping some period pictures of just such things to pull out of hiding to illistrate the similarities between now and then...

[Becky Morgan]

Re: Innovative Interpretation for the PUBLIC

Permission to come aboard, sir?
There may be something else at work here. It is true that people relocated often throughout history; that is, a family might come from Wales, settle in Virginia for a generation or two, migrate to the Ohio country, and so on. However, the Virginians were aware that there was a place called Wales, and the Buckeyes knew there was such a thing as Virginia. Each move meant something; life at the end of the move was supposed to improve, and the assumption was that there would be some attempt at settlement each time.

Now, families move so frequently that there are no ties to any place. The often-cited American restlessness has become endless rootless motion with no notion of a stopping point. When any American history gets taught at all, it's easier to teach a broad, vague series of generic lessons than it is to explain the actual history of a city. Most of the kids are only stopping by, anyhow, and many of the teachers aren't planning on teaching there for long. Eventually, even the kids whose families do stay in town have no idea of what's beneath their feet. If it didn't happen in their lifetime and it wasn't on Oprah, it didn't happen.

Part of the difficulty of teaching local history in many places is that hardly anyone has lived there for long or plans on living there much longer. I don't know how long people stay in an average suburban development, but there is little sense of community and no sense of permanence.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Innovative Interpretation for the PUBLIC

I'm continuing this topic in a slightly new direction here:

http://authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26565

Thanks!